Tag: Stanford Cal ACC

Florida State fan describes Stanford and Cal to ACC as ‘frozen leftovers’

The term is a clever reference to ACC negotiations having been frozen, but now resuming, in pursuit of Stanford and Cal.

If you ask ACC fans about the idea of adding Stanford and Cal, some of them might accept the reality that more television money is necessary. If you ask those ACC fans from schools other than Florida State or Clemson, they will probably concede the point that the ACC needs to add Stanford and Cal as insurance against FSU and Clemson eventually leaving the conference. Most ACC observers think Florida State and Clemson will leave. It’s a matter of when, not if.

The practical dimensions of the ACC adding Stanford and Cal — which has picked up considerable momentum over the past 36 hours — are conceded by people who live and work in the ACC footprint and its media markets. However, no one in the ACC is doing cartwheels over this. It’s not exciting. It isn’t a huge boost to the conference’s football and basketball brands. It is seen mostly as an act of survival — necessary, perhaps, but ridiculous.

Florida State fans led the chorus in noting the absurdity of Stanford and Cal potentially joining the ACC. One fan called the two Pac-4 refugees “frozen leftovers.” Let’s see how others reacted to this latest realignment plot twist:

If Stanford really wants to join the ACC, there’s a clear plan for how to do it

Maybe Stanford wants the #B1G more than the #ACC … but if Stanford does want the ACC, there’s a roadmap for the school.

The other day, we made the larger overall point that Stanford University has a lot of avenues to consider as it tries to plot its next move in college sports realignment.

The Cardinal could seek membership in the ACC. They could try to get into the Big Ten. Many insiders and experts think that is Stanford’s No. 1 choice and preferred outcome, but we don’t know how much the Big Ten wants that same outcome.

The Cardinal could go independent in football and join a Power Five conference in other sports. They could pursue a Pac-4 merger with Mountain West and/or AAC schools in which the Pac-12, as a purely legal and contractual matter, continues to exist and thereby retains its annual payouts and distributions for the College Football Playoff and NCAA Tournament. Stanford would reduce its revenue losses and salvage a less-than-ideal situation with a tolerable (though not great) outcome.

Stanford has a lot to think about, and we do think it prefers the Big Ten if we’re being honest. However, let’s say for the sake of discussion that Stanford wants to get into the ACC.

If the Cardinal like that choice and want to make it happen, there’s a way for the school to execute a plan.

Let’s look at the details:

North Carolina State is blocking Stanford and Cal to the ACC

Naturally, Florida State and Clemson would be against this move. North Carolina? Maybe. But why #NCState? This is fascinating. #ACC

Our friends at Fighting Irish Wire are looking on with interest at the ACC, where Notre Dame has been pushing for Stanford and California to be invited to the conference.

Some national commentators have thrown out some very interesting (read: wild) ideas about Notre Dame and what the Irish should do. Fighting Irish Wire is chuckling at how often — and how badly — the national college sports media world wants Notre Dame to join a conference, when that just isn’t happening.

However, as much as national pundits and personalities might be erroneous and tiresome with their constant insistence that Notre Dame should join a conference, they do have a point in this regard: Why should Notre Dame have a vote on ACC matters when the Irish aren’t a full member in football? It does seem reasonable enough that the ACC should insist on full football membership before granting Notre Dame a vote.

That brings up the larger question, though: Why aren’t more ACC schools voting against Notre Dame’s push to have Stanford and Cal join the conference? The conference has 15 votes with Notre Dame included. The conference needs 75 percent of schools — at least 12 of the 15 (11 isn’t enough) — to approve the Stanford-Cal plan.

Currently, 11 schools are in favor, four are not.

We can understand why Florida State and Clemson would vote no. Why would they want to give Notre Dame anything it wants? Those schools are unhappy with the ACC to begin with. They don’t want Notre Dame to get its way. Moreover, adding Stanford and Cal probably means FSU and Clemson have to split ACC revenues with even more schools. The ACC gets stronger without making concessions to FSU and Clemson, which aren’t getting nearly as much TV money as they should be.

That makes sense.

It makes some sense that North Carolina is also voting against the Stanford-Cal plan, though this one is a little more tricky. Does UNC privately want to go to the Big Ten? If it does, voting no makes sense.

It’s the fourth school voting against the Stanford-Cal plan that is eye-opening. North Carolina State is the fourth no. What really is fascinating about all of this is N.C. State is voting no whereas in-state neighbor Wake Forest is voting yes. Another North Carolina-based school, Duke, is voting yes.

Nine other ACC schools — Boston College, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Miami, Georgia Tech — are joining Notre Dame in voting yes as well.

What is it about North Carolina State that is making the Wolfpack oppose this plan while other ACC schools are approving it? Is this the way the 15 ACC schools think, or are the 11 “yes” votes voting yes only because they want to make Notre Dame happy on the surface but secretly oppose the plan and know that four schools will never allow it to happen?

It’s very intriguing.

Let’s look at ACC and national reactions to the revelation that North Carolina State has joined Florida State, Clemson, and North Carolina in opposing Notre Dame’s Stanford-Cal plan in the ACC:

Stanford and Cal to ACC loses steam, so AAC re-enters the Pac-12 picture

Key point: If the ACC is off the table for Stanford and Cal, a merger with the Mountain West becomes more possible again.

Is anyone else exhausted by conference realignment? We sure are.

Like a dog chasing a cat in an open field, we’re always running a little bit behind, trying to keep up with the latest rumors, plot twist, conference board meetings, and the other related events in this theater of activity which is sometimes referred to as “a soap opera for dudes.”

It might be sad and depressing to see the Pac-12 die, and it might be annoying to see college athletes being disregarded in this process. Oregon softball players and Arizona State swimmers did not sign up for long plane flights to the Midwest when they chose to attend those schools a few years ago. Their needs are being ignored, and we know it.

Yet, the larger drama surrounding realignment is impossible to pull away from until it runs its course. Knowing that it’s uncertain whether Stanford University — a prestigious school with elite sports programs across the board — will be in one conference or another is hugely dramatic and considerably significant. We want to find out where this road is leading, and we want to stay with this drama until it is resolved.

That’s why realignment is exhausting. We don’t seem to have resolution to Stanford’s (and Cal’s, and Oregon State’s and Washington State’s) plight.

The ACC refused to vote on admitting Stanford and Cal on Wednesday night, a clear indication the conference doesn’t have the votes to approve the move. If the ACC’s attempt to bring in Stanford and Cal has stalled, that means the AAC is still a player. It also means the Mountain West might still have a chance to work something out with the “Pac-4.”

Let’s give you some reactions to the AAC part of this puzzle. Much like Stanford and Cal to the ACC, it wouldn’t seem to make a lot of sense, but then again, the Pac-12 dying doesn’t make sense on many levels.

Here we go:

Why would Notre Dame vote to bring Stanford and Cal to the ACC?

Many seem confused by this, but the politics aren’t as complicated on this topic as many might think.

As of Thursday morning, it seems that the ACC’s discussions about adding Stanford and Cal are going nowhere. The ACC does not appear to have the necessary number of votes among its members to approve an invitation to the Cardinal and the Golden Bears. Yet, that’s not the full story.

It was revealed on Wednesday that Notre Dame has a vote among ACC member schools on the Stanford-and-Cal agenda item. Notre Dame is not a full member of the ACC. It is not part of the ACC in football. It plays several ACC teams each season and plays within the ACC in non-football sports, but it is not a football member of the conference. Why Notre Dame would therefore get a vote on this and other urgent ACC matters is a point of considerable debate. As you could imagine, it’s a point of frustration among other ACC members, which is probably why a vote to approve Stanford and Cal to the conference will ultimately fail. There will be enough voices at the table to insist that Notre Dame must not get its way.

One obvious question: What “is” Notre Dame’s way? What is Notre Dame’s bigger play here? What’s the ultimate purpose of wanting Stanford and Cal in the ACC from the Irish’s point of view?

The biggest reason for ND’s stance on Stanford and Cal to the ACC is this: It’s all about the College Football Playoff.

Think about it: If Stanford and Cal are pulled out of the Pac-4, it becomes that much more possible that the Pac-12 dissolves and fully ceases to exist.

What is the consequence of that scenario if it happens? A Power Five conference dies, and with it die all those revenue distributions and allocations for the playoff and the NCAA Tournament. Notre Dame, as an independent, would not have to deal with an automatic playoff spot for the Pac-12 in future seasons. Stanford and Cal staying in the Pac-4 and working out an arrangement with the Mountain West in which the Pac-12 keeps its playoff spot and playoff money distributions would represent one small but real obstacle toward Notre Dame making the playoff every year. Killing off the Pac-12 in an official (logistical, bureaucratic, structural) way would significantly increase the Irish’s playoff odds.

Be sure to follow Fighting Irish Wire for complete Notre Dame coverage.

Now that you’ve gained that answer, watch how fans and pundits reacted to the news that Notre Dame actually does get a vote in the ACC. It was, as you could imagine, a firestorm:

SMU could join Stanford and Cal in the ACC, which would make the Pac-12 look even worse

#SMU was very interested in the #Pac12, much like San Diego State. Again: Why didn’t the Pac-12 bring these schools in? Crazytown.

The Pac-12 began courting SMU in February. George Kliavkoff went to an SMU basketball game and was seen talking in a suite or luxury box to SMU power brokers.

One of the especially exasperating aspects of the Pac-12’s failure is it played out over a full year, 12 months between USC and UCLA leaving for the Big Ten in the early summer of 2022 and — at the other end — the mass exodus that destroyed the conference in early August 2023.

The Pac-12 had a great deal of time to land the plane, but it couldn’t. One decision at the center of all this was the conference’s refusal to bring new schools in, out of the misguided belief that it had to do the media deal first and then deal with expansion.

The Big 12 didn’t do that. The Big 12 added schools first and then finalized its media deal.

We can see which conference made out better in the long run.

On Tuesday, new reports emerged that the ACC is considering inviting SMU in addition to Stanford and Cal. The ACC might just invite the Bay Area schools, but SMU could also be included.

Seeing SMU become the focus of another Power Five conference only reinforces the magnitude of the Pac-12’s failure to bring in the Mustangs — alongside San Diego State — in late June, when Colorado was still in the conference and the addition of new schools would have boosted a media rights price point.

Here’s reaction on social media to the new reports connecting SMU and the ACC:

Pac-12 could have formed an alliance with the ACC; now ACC might raid Pac-12

If you have followed our realignment coverage, you know we advised the #Pac12 pursue an alliance with the #ACC. Too late, guys!

If you have been following our realignment coverage and analysis here at Trojans Wire, you know we advised the Pac-12 to pursue an alliance with the ACC. You’ll recall the Pac-12 and ACC had an “alliance” with the Big Ten, but never put anything in writing. The Big Ten blew up that alliance and thereby weakened the Pac-12’s position.

Fine. The Big Ten wouldn’t play along. The Pac-12 and ACC could have entered into a joint agreement. The Pac-12 could have stabilized itself and given itself a meaningful degree of leverage in its battle to survive.

If you haven’t been reading our realignment analysis, here’s an article we produced in July … of 2022.

A key excerpt:

“If ESPN can rearrange conferences via reworking the ACC TV deal in a world forever changed by USC’s move to the Big Ten, Vanderbilt might move to the ACC as another academic powerhouse with North Carolina, Duke and Virginia. That kind of membership would mesh well with Stanford and Berkeley (Cal). The cultural and institutional fits of ACC and Pac-12 schools are far better than those between Pac-12 and Big 12 schools.”

The Pac-12 could have met the ACC halfway; now it seems the ACC is at least thinking about the possibility of raiding the Pac-12 (more precisely, the “Pac-4”) for Stanford and Cal.

The Pac-12 continues to get caught flat-footed.

See how people reacted to the reports of the ACC thinking about adding Stanford and Cal: