2023-24 Detroit Pistons vs. 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats: Who wins?

HoopsHype looks at the players and coaches to decide who was worse between the 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats and 2023-24 Detroit Pistons.

What happens when a stoppable force meets a movable object on the NBA hardwood?

That’s what we’re here to discuss today, as we break down a potential matchup between the 2023-24 Detroit Pistons and the 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats.

If you recall, that Bobcats team set the record for the worst winning percentage in an NBA season after they went 7-59 for a 10.6 win percentage. That year’s Charlotte team lost its final 23 games of the season, meaning Bobcats fans had to go from March 17, 2012, until Nov. 2, 2012, without seeing their team win a single game.

This year’s Pistons squad, meanwhile, as of Dec. 27, 2023, has lost 27 games in a row – an NBA record for consecutive losses in a single season – and sits at 2-28 on the year. The overall losing streak record still belongs to the 2014-15 and 2015-16 Philadelphia 76ers but considering they lost 28 in a row over two campaigns – just one more than the current Pistons – Detroit could very well break that record, too.

Below, let’s get into the player matchups, and respective benches and coaches to figure out who would win: the 2023-24 Detroit Pistons or the 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats.

The best NBA signature player celebrations

HoopsHype presents the best NBA signature player celebrations, from the Jordan ‘shrug’ to the LeBron ‘silencer’.

Besides being the best basketball league in the world, the NBA also features some of the best player celebrations, which fans all over copy while playing pick-up basketball.

LeBron James‘ ‘silencer’, Stephen Curry sending people to sleep, Carmelo Anthony’s three-point celebration, Dikembe Mutombo’s finger wag and, of course, the Michael Jordan ‘shrug’, still popular so many years later, are some of the most iconic player celebrations in the Association.

There are many more that we haven’t even mentioned yet, which you can check out below.

Here’s a gallery of the best NBA signature player celebrations in history. Which are your favorites?

GOAT debate cheat sheet: Where NBA legends rank No. 1

HoopsHype breaks down the most impressive stats of each NBA GOAT candidate in a cheat-sheet format for GOAT debates and arguments.

The GOAT debate in the NBA is one that will be going on forever, and though there are really just two or three legit candidates, fans have their personal favorites who they’ll back no matter what.

Because arguments about the NBA GOAT spring up often among groups of friends or on social media, we decided to make things easier for you by creating a GOAT debate cheat sheet where we give you the best stats and arguments for every GOAT candidate imaginable, from Michael JordanLeBron James and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to lesser discussed candidates like Oscar Robertson and Shaquille O’Neal.

We should mention that the arguments for certain candidates aren’t foolproof due to the fact that some statistics, like blocks and steals, and awards, like Player of the Month or 3rd Team All-NBA, didn’t exist early on in the NBA, meaning players like Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain could have an even stronger case if they did.

Regardless, you can check out our GOAT debate cheat sheet and the arguments that can be made for each candidate below.

NBA awards debate with Michael Scotto, Yossi Gozlan and Sam Quinn

HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto and Yossi Gozlan, and CBS writer Sam Quinn debate the top candidates for each of the major NBA awards.

On the Locker Room app, HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto and Yossi Gozlan were joined by CBS Sports writer Sam Quinn with occasional input from listeners. The trio debated all the top candidates for each of the major NBA awards. For more interviews with players, coaches, and media members, be sure to like and subscribe to the HoopsHype podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Listen to the podcast above or check out some snippets of the conversation in a transcribed version below.

Best arguments to defend Celtics/Lakers as NBA’s GOAT franchise

HoopsHype breaks down the facts and statistical evidence supporting the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics as the NBA’s best franchise.

With the Los Angeles Lakers, led by LeBron James and Anthony Davis, taking home the 2019-20 NBA championship, the storied purple-and-gold franchise won their 17th title as an organization, a mark that can only be matched by one other team… their chief rivals historically, the Boston Celtics.

The debate about which franchise is better has been going on for decades, all the way back through the 1960s when the likes of Jerry WestBill RussellElgin Baylor and John Havlicek were battling it out for rings.

Then, the ’80s arrived and the rivalry became more intense than ever when Magic Johnson and Larry Bird took the NBA to new heights with their almost-annual showdowns for championships.

Now, with both organizations deadlocked at 17 titles apiece, it has become just a bit harder to decide which team is the NBA’s GOAT, or best, franchise.

Below, we break down the top arguments each side can make in the heated debate. Let’s get into it.

LAKERS: BETTER REGULAR-SEASON WIN RATE AND MORE PLAYOFF WINS

One of the best arguments Lakers fans can make regarding this hot-button issue is that Los Angeles has a better win rate in the regular season and more wins in the playoffs outright than Boston does.

The numbers break down as follows:

  • Lakers’ regular-season record: 3,385-2,301 (59.5 percent win rate)
  • Celtics’ regular-season record: 3,526-2,370 (59.1 percent win rate)
  • Lakers’ playoff record: 453-300 (60.2 percent win rate)
  • Celtics’ playoff record: 381-289 (56.9 percent win rate)

The Lakers can also boast the impressive claim that they’re the only franchise in NBA history with a win rate of over 60 percent in the postseason.

Those are otherworldly numbers for both franchises, and the Celtics do have more regular-season wins overall, but advantage Lakers in this one.

Los Angeles also comes out on top in the number of playoff series won as a franchise with 112 compared to Boston’s 84.

CELTICS: BETTER HEAD-TO-HEAD

Nevertheless, Celtics fans can counter by saying that head-to-head, Boston has gotten the better of Los Angeles more often than not.

In regular-season competition, the Celtics have a 161-131 record against the Lakers, an advantage of 30 wins for the Bostonian franchise.

Meanwhile, in postseason matchups, the Celtics are 43-31 against L.A., 9-3 specifically in Finals showdowns against their top rivals.

Sure, a lot of those wins were accumulated in the ’60s during the days of Russell and West, but the facts are the facts, and at the end of the day, Boston has come out on top against the Lakers more than vice versa.

LAKERS: TITLES WORTH MORE DUE TO COMPETITION

Winning a championship is an impressive and difficult feat, no matter what the circumstances are.

That doesn’t mean every title is worth the same, however, as some years, simply by virtue of the level of competition, winning a ring isn’t as difficult as it would be other years.

Case in point, the Celtics won their championships with an average of 13.9 NBA teams in the league. The Lakers, on the other hand, won their titles with an average of 21 NBA teams in the league.

Another way we could look at it is this: 12 of Boston’s 17 championship runs came before the NBA/ABA merger of 1976 – the point that the vast majority of the best basketball players in the world started playing in a single league – while 11 of L.A.’s 17 titles came after the merger.

No way around it here: The exponential growth of the game from the 1950s through today has made it so Los Angeles won their titles facing much stiffer competition, and there’s really no way for Celtics fans to argue that.

CELTICS: MORE TITLES IN THEIR CITY

It’s a well-known fact that the Lakers haven’t always played in Los Angeles, having spent the first 12 years of their history as a franchise in Minneapolis, where the iconic ‘Lakers’ name came from.

Nevertheless, what’s not as well-known is the fact that the Lakers won five of their championships while playing in Minneapolis. That means “merely” 12 of the franchise’s 17 championships came while they were located in Los Angeles.

The Celtics, on the other hand, have always played in Boston, meaning all 17 of their titles came while playing in their current city, meaning the Boston Celtics do indeed have more titles than the Los Angeles Lakers if we want to be really specific

It might not be your No. 1 argument if you want to make the case that the Celtics are the NBA’s GOAT franchise, but it’s still pretty noteworthy.

LAKERS: WAY MORE FINALS

Los Angeles comes out on top here as well, with 33 Finals appearances in franchise history (one came in the NBL, one more came in the BAA and the other 31 came in the NBA) to Boston’s 22 appearances in the league’s championship series.

The caveat here is that the Lakers making that many more Finals appearances than Boston also means they have a lower success rate in winning titles once they do make it to the championship series.

Los Angeles has a 51.5 percent win rate in Finals series in comparison to the Celtics’ 77.3 percent win rate in Finals matchups.

CELTICS: BETTER HALL-OF-FAME PEDIGREE

If you look at the top players in the history books of each of these franchises, you’ll find a who’s who of all-time greats in the sport.

Decade to decade, both the Celtics and Lakers have boasted some of the best players the NBA has ever seen.

However, if we take a closer look at what the numbers say, Boston can actually make the claim they have had more all-time historic players play for them than the Lakers have.

In all, there are 36 players in the Naismith Hall of Fame for the Celtics to “just” 27 for the Lakers. Both franchises have had three coaches inducted into the Hall-of-Fame.

Insane numbers for both, but the advantage to Boston here as far as Hall-of-Fame pedigree.

LAKERS: MORE ALL-NBA PLAYERS

However, if we take a more micro look at both franchise’s annual top-end talent, it’s actually Los Angeles who comes out on top of the Celtics here.

That’s because historically, the Lakers have had more players be voted into All-NBA teams at year’s end than the Celtics.

The final tally there reads 95 All-NBA selections for the Lakers to 81 for Boston. And if we look at just 1st Team All-NBA selections, the advantage still goes to Los Angeles with an outrageous 63 to 36 for the Celtics.

That’s a whole lot of basketball royalty competing in Lakers jerseys historically. Boston’s numbers here are impressive, too, but Los Angeles still blows them out of the water in All-NBA selections.

TIE: ALL-STARS ACCOLADES

Our second tie between the two historic clubs comes when looking at All-Star players from each franchise.

That’s because in the history of the prestigious event, Celtics players have been given the honor to showcase their skills in the contest 146 times. That’s six more than the Lakers’ 140.

If we take a look at this stat by just the number of players to be named All-Stars in each team’s history, L.A. has had 32 while the Celtics have had 28.

TIE: POINT DIFFERENTIAL

Taking a look at the average point differentials for both franchises, we deemed this one to be a tie because while the Celtics have had a better point differential than the Lakers historically, that’s just in the regular season. In the playoffs, it’s Los Angeles who prevails.

Boston has outscored opponents by 2.7 points nightly in regular-season competition. In comparison, the Lakers have outscored opponents by 2.6 points in the regular season.

It’s a different story in the playoffs, with Los Angeles outscoring opponents by an average of 2.5 points compared to Boston’s 2.3.

CELTICS: MORE MVP WINNERS

The Lakers came out on top when it comes to All-NBA players but Boston has the advantage in  Hall-of-Fame inductees while the two teams tied in All-Star accolades, as we already discussed.

But one other area where the Celtics also come out on top as far as player accolades go is in league MVP winners, an award they have won 10 times as a franchise versus eight Laker winners of the prestigious accolade.

The Boston players to have won MVP in league history are Bob Cousy, Russell (five-time winner), Dave Cowens and Larry Bird (three-time winner). The Lakers to have won the award, meanwhile, are Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (he won it three times with L.A.), Magic Johnson (three-time winner), Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant.

If we break it down to pre- and post-merger, that leaves just three of the Celtics MVP seasons coming after the merger while all of Los Angeles’ came post-merger.

Nonetheless, it’s still 10-8 in MVPs in favor of Boston here.

LAKERS: MORE SCORING TITLES

The Lakers have had seven scoring champions to their name while the Celtics, somewhat shockingly, have had zero.

The seven scoring championships in Laker history came courtesy of George Mikan (three-time winner), West (one-time winner), O’Neal (one-time winner) and Bryant (two-time winner).

That’s a pretty decent group of point-producers right there.

LAKERS: MUCH LARGER FAN BASE

It won’t come to as a surprise to anyone who uses social media even seldomly, but judging by online presence, the Lakers have a bigger fan base than the Celtics do.

And it’s not all that close.

On Twitter, Los Angeles’ purple-and-gold franchise has an absurd 9.2 million followers to Boston’s 3.5 million. On Instagram, the Lakers boast 14.9 million followers to the Celtics’ 5.3 million. And on Facebook, Los Angeles has 21 million followers to Boston’s 8.9 million.

A clear and emphatic sweep here for the Lakers.

FINAL VERDICT

The final tally here in talking points “won” reads as follows: Six categories won by the Lakers, four categories won by the Celtics and two draws.

So going by our article, one could argue the Lakers have the better case to be considered the NBA’s GOAT franchise overall thanks to a wide variety of factors.

But no matter what, fans are going to have their opinions and in a topic as hotly contested as this one, it’s not likely minds are going to change that easily. We just wanted to present the facts for each side in a fair manner.

Alberto de Roa contributed to this article.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: The case for GOAT status

HoopsHype looks at the numbers and accolades of various players to determine their case to be considered the GOAT – or Greatest of All Time.

HoopsHype is doing a series where we examine various historically elite player’s cases to be considered the NBA’s GOAT.

First, we covered the legacy of one strong candidate, Michael Jordan. Next, we followed that up with the current era of basketball’s unquestioned best playerLeBron James. Today, we examine the case of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, arguably the greatest big man in league history.

Let’s jump right in.

He has the most MVP trophies ever…

When discussing GOAT candidates, one of the most common accolades that get brought up is the all-important number of MVP awards players won during their careers.

Magic Johnson won three during his time in the NBA. Larry Bird did, too. LeBron has four (and potentially counting). Jordan and Bill Russell have five apiece.

Abdul-Jabbar?

He’s got six, the most won by a single player ever.

Abdul-Jabbar’s first MVP award came in 1970-71, his age-23 season, just the second campaign of his career, and one in which he led the league in scoring with 31.7 points per game (57.7 FG%) while also averaging 16.0 rebounds and 3.3 assists nightly. He led the Bucks to a championship that season, too.

Abdul-Jabbar’s last MVP came in 1979-80 as a 32-year-old when he averaged 24.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 4.5 assists and a league-leading 3.4 blocks per game. He won the second title of his career that season, helping lead the Lakers to the top of that mountain that year.

He has an overwhelming amount of accolades, aside from MVPs…

Abdul-Jabbar owns the record for most All-Star appearances with 19 (he was an All-Star in all but one of his 20 career seasons), plus he made 10 1st Team All-NBAs (third-most ever) and five 2nd Team All-NBAs. That places Abdul-Jabbar tied for the most All-NBA selections all-time with James and Bryant. It should be noted, though, that Abdul-Jabbar had the unfavorable luck of playing in an era without the existence of a 3rd Team All-NBA, which didn’t come into effect until 1988, meaning instead of being tied for the most All-NBA selections, he could own the record outright right now.

On top of all that, Abdul-Jabbar was a two-time Finals MVP, a two-time scoring champion, a four-time blocks leader and a one-time rebounding champion. He’s also one of just two players, along with David Robinson, to have led the league in scoring, rebounding and blocks throughout their careers.

He might have done most of that in an era not considered the most talent-laden in league history, but either way, Abdul-Jabbar’s list of accolades is absurdly impressive. And for someone who arrived in the NBA with a ton of fanfare and hype after his illustrious college career, he more than lived up to expectations.

His peak and longevity are unmatched…

Abdul-Jabbar’s statistical peak – a seven-year stretch from when he was 22 until he was 29 – was insane. Over that run, the big man averaged 30 points, 15.6 rebounds and 4.4 assists per game, winning one title in those seven years, taking home a Finals MVP, while also being named MVP four times and making 1st Team All-NBA five times.

Even if Abdul-Jabbar’s production had fallen off a cliff after that point, he would have been a Hall-of-Famer. The fact that the UCLA legend would go on to have another ten extremely high-level campaigns after that just goes to show why he is often mentioned as a GOAT candidate.

Abdul-Jabbar won four more titles after his statistical seven-year peak, even being named Finals MVP in 1985, putting an unheard-of 14-year gap between his two Finals MVP awards, a record for the longest stretch between a player’s first and last such trophy.

Considering the average NBA career lasts just under five seasons, that Abdul-Jabbar was performing at an elite level for such a long time is quite noteworthy when discussing his case to be considered the GOAT.

He won an awful lot…

Perhaps because he was sometimes the sidekick of those teams, maybe it’s because it happened a long time ago, but for whatever reason, when discussing GOATs, the fact that Abdul-Jabbar won six titles in his playing career doesn’t get brought up a lot.

Those six championships put him tied for the second-most since he reached the NBA along with Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Only career role player Robert Horry has more rings since Abdul-Jabbar’s debut.

His first title came in 1970-71 and he was unquestionably the top player for the Milwaukee Bucks that year, averaging 27 points and 18.5 rebounds over a four-game championship victory those Finals. And his last one came in 1987-88 when he had fallen down the Los Angeles Lakers’ pecking order third-most important player on that team behind Magic Johnson and James Worthy.

Even so, for Abdul-Jabbar to contribute to that many championships – more than all but 13 players ever – says a lot about Abdul Jabbar’s historically elite career.

Additionally, Abdul-Jabbar owns the record for most wins by a player with 1,074, which also definitely doesn’t get discussed nearly enough anymore.

Mike Powell/Getty Images

He’s the NBA’s all-time leader in scoring…

Throughout his 20-year career, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 24.6 points per contest, posting 17 seasons where he averaged at least 20 points, which is tied with LeBron James and Karl Malone for the most all-time.

In total, he finished his time in the NBA with 38,387 total points scored, making him the Association’s all-time leading scorer, a record that has stood for over 30 seasons at this point. He did that without looking for foul calls or shooting a bunch of three-pointers, too.

In a sport where getting buckets is the most important endgame, the fact that Abdul-Jabbar has scored more points than anyone else, as well as cashed in more field goals than anyone else (with 15,837), goes a long way in his GOAT candidacy.

He had the most unstoppable go-to move ever…

When asked to determine the most iconic, dominant singular moves in NBA history, there’s almost always one common answer: Kareem’s skyhook shot.

He’d back down opponents no matter how long it took, sometimes fake like he was turning right before going to his left shoulder, extending his right arm to an impossible-to-block spot in the air, and toss in buckets from anywhere in the short midrange area of the floor.

And although he made it look easy at times, no player since Abdul-Jabbar has been anywhere near as effective trying to score off of hook shots, and in today’s NBA the move is basically extinct.

How frustrating must it have been for the big men of the 1970s and ’80s who knew what Abdul-Jabbar wanted to do, and yet were so rarely able to stop him? What made it even harder to stop was the fact that Abdul-Jabbar had a turnaround fadeaway jumper he could go to as a counter to the skyhook, so in all, the Bucks and Lakers legend made things impossible for foes who wanted to slow him down.

He also absolutely dominated at the college level…

Along with LeBron James, Abdul-Jabbar was one of the most hyped-up players ever, who had a ton of buzz surrounding him prior to reaching the NBA.

The reason for that is Abdul-Jabbar had arguably the greatest college basketball career in the sport’s long history, one that saw him spend three seasons at UCLA, win a national title all three seasons, be named a 1st Team All-American all three seasons, win National College Player of the Year all three seasons and be named Final Four Most Outstanding Player all three seasons.

That’s complete and utter dominance at the NCAA level, and if were to factor it into this discussion, then Abdul-Jabbar easily becomes the strongest GOAT candidate we have.

Had his prime occurred later, there might not be a GOAT debate…

Abdul-Jabbar’s GOAT candidacy gets hurt by the fact that his peak occurred in a down era historically for the NBA, one where the 7-footer didn’t have a true rival and where the sport wasn’t anywhere near as popular as it would go on to become. As you’ve probably heard countless times, the Finals were even on tape delay back then, which is hard to fathom considering the millions of people who enjoy the NBA live these days.

By the time the league saw an uptick in talent and popularity in the 1980s, Abdul-Jabbar, though still an excellent player, wasn’t the same guy who was dropping 30 points nightly over the first seven years of his career.

Let’s say Abdul-Jabbar comes along 10 years later, starting his career in 1979-80 and finishing it up in 1999-00, and it goes the exact same way: He becomes the league’s all-time leading scorer, he wins MVP a record six times, he makes 19 All-Star appearances and all that other stuff we just talked about.

Would there even be a debate about who the GOAT is right now?

Probably, just because people love to argue about sports that much, but way more people might side with Abdul-Jabbar in the discussion than those who do so now.

In all, Abdul-Jabbar didn’t have the ultra-charismatic personality of a Jordan, or a LeBron or even of a Kobe, which cost him some fans, nor did he do the bulk of his damage in a super popular, talent-laden era of the NBA, but even so, when you consider everything the sky-hooking legend accomplished in the sport, it’s hard to not give him at least some consideration when discussing who the greatest NBA player of all time is.

And Abdul-Jabbar is definitely up there.

You can follow Frank Urbina on Twitter: @FrankUrbina_.

LeBron James: The case for GOAT status

HoopsHype looks at the numbers and accolades of various players to determine their case to be considered the GOAT – or Greatest of All Time.

HoopsHype is starting a series where we examine various historically elite player’s cases to be considered the NBA’s GOAT.

First, we covered the legacy of one No. 23, the original, Michael Jordan. Today, we continue with another one… LeBron James.

Let’s jump right in.

LeBron James boasts the best all-around game ever…

No player in league history can match James’ blend of size, strength, quickness explosiveness, ball-handling, shooting, playmaking and defense (when motivated).

That full package has helped elevate the legendary small forward to one of the most ridiculous extended primes the NBA has ever seen, and it’s hard to foresee another play coming along in our lifetimes who boasts such an absurd blend of diverse skills.

His versatility as a player is also wild, as, throughout his career, he’s been able to legitimately play every single position, from being a small-ball center in extreme cases to running point full time now with the Los Angeles Lakers.

He’s the only player to rank Top 10 in two huge statistics…

Only one player in NBA history ranks Top 10 in both total points and total assists.

That player is LeBron James.

James currently ranks third in points scored in a career with 34,087 and eighth in assists with 9,298. What’s scary is that even at 35 years of age in Season-17, James is still producing at an elite level (he’s averaging 25.7 points and a league-leading 10.6 assists in 2019-20), so he has a good chance of finishing his career at or near the top of both of those rankings.

Furthermore, not only does he have a great shot at finishing first overall in points scored, he’s already No. 1 in playoff scoring by a mile, making him a mortal lock to be No. 1 scorer in NBA history if you combine both regular season and playoffs.

Even if he’s not considered a score-first player, his scoring stats are off the charts…

What’s even crazier to consider is that James has never been thought of as a pure scorer like some of his counterparts, such as smooth bucket-getters Kevin Durant and Carmelo Anthony, but even so, James is an absolute scoring machine.

James doesn’t just rank third in career points, he’s fourth overall in career point-per-game average at 27.1, he has led the league in scoring once (back in 2007-08 at 30.0 points per game) and since arriving in the NBA back in 2003-04, he is first in scoring average, just ahead of Kobe Bryant, Durant and Allen Iverson.

BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/AFP via Getty Images

He’ll probably retire with the most playoff series won…

A lot is made of James’ legacy being somewhat lacking, at least when discussing championships in comparison to the other top GOAT candidates.

However, despite his 3-6 Finals record, James has done a lot of winning in his playoff career – to the extent that there’s a solid chance he finishes his time in the NBA with the most playoff series won by a player.

As of now, James sits tied for fourth in that benchmark with 35 postseason series victories, alongside Tim Duncan and Scottie Pippen, one behind third-place finisher Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (36), three behind second-place finisher Robert Horry (38) and merely four behind the player who’s in first place right now, Derek Fisher, who has 39 playoff series wins.

No one can touch his sustained level of long-term excellence…

Another important factor in James’ GOAT case is the otherworldly durability he’s enjoyed in his career.

James boasts an amazing 16 All-Star Game appearances in a row, as well as more 1st Team All-NBA selections (12) than any other player in history while being tied with Kobe, Abdul-Jabbar and Duncan for most overall All-NBA selections (15) as of now. That will surely change when the 2019-10 teams are announced.

James will retire with more MVP votes than any other player in league history, and more Player of the Week and Player of the Month awards than anyone else ever.

The teams he left in free agency were utterly devastated…

Sure, there is something to be said that James has already switched franchises three times in his career when situations got difficult and left to join situations more conducive to winning (in two of those cases, forming Big 3s and creating super teams right away), which doesn’t look great for his GOAT case compared to other candidates.

At the same time, however, him doing that has greatly empowered players in the NBA to now do what they feel is right for their careers and not care so much what the media and fans have to say about it – undoubtedly a great thing in a league where ownership has so much power.

On top of that, the fact that the teams he left were so much worse without him the following seasons says a lot about his importance as a player. The first time James ditched the Cleveland Cavaliers, they saw an obscene 42-win decrease without him (that’s the biggest season-to-season dropoff in league history, by the way); the Miami Heat saw a 17-win decrease when James went back to Cleveland; and when he left Cleveland the second time, they went through a 31-win decrease.

It almost goes without saying, but, obviously, those three teams missed the playoffs those respective seasons. That means they went from contender status to out of the postseason from one season to the next, all because LeBron left.

The circumstances were pretty different but in comparison to the Chicago Bulls winning 55 games in their lone full season without Jordan during his first retirement, the numbers are noteworthy.

He managed to live up the unprecedented hype…

Before even arriving to the NBA, James had hype that maybe only one other player ever (Kareem) could come close to matching. And even then, James’ hype probably exceeded that of Abdul-Jabbar’s since media coverage of sports in the early 2000s was much more intense than it was in Abdul Jabbar’s heyday.

James was so popular as a high-schooler that ESPN would even broadcast some of his games and recap the ones that they didn’t show live on SportsCenter.

What’s more, as a junior, James was even featured on the cover of Sports Illustrated, an honor bestowed to only the most iconic of prep superstars in sports history, with the classic headline dubbing him The Chosen One.

The fact that James wasn’t just able to live up to that hype as an NBA professional afterward, but exceed it, is legendary.

He has made it to nine Finals…

That includes making it eight straight Finals from 2010-11 to 2017-18, a record that can only be topped by Bill Russell, who reached 10 straight Finals back when the NBA had far fewer teams.

James’ nine Finals appearances are the fourth-most of all time, and the most since Magic Johnson, who likewise reached the championship series nine times.

And although the common knock on James is that he’s lost six Finals series and won just three, even in some of those championship bouts that he lost, he was probably the best player on the floor. Additionally, James often faced difficult odds to win the Finals he took part in, as James-led teams were only favored to win two out of the nine championship series he was in, per Basketball-Reference.

He’s basically only lost to absolutely top-notch competition…

It might sound like an excuse, but James legitimately has a history of facing incredibly difficult odds when it comes to his Finals opponents, which has in turn greatly swayed his record in the all-important championship series.

The teams that have beaten him in the playoffs boasted a 74.1 percent win percentage in the regular season – the highest mark among 25 NBA legends we looked up, ahead of Durant (73.3 percent) and Jordan (71.3).

He didn’t get as much rest between seasons, though he more than earned it…

James is undoubtedly one of the all-time greats of USA Basketball, winning three gold medals (two Olympic, one Americas Championship) with the team and taking time out of five of his summer vacations to represent his country when he really didn’t have to.

The fact that he’s still going so strong today at age 35 despite missing out on so much off time only speaks to his greatness.

James ranks second all-time in Olympic scoring, behind just Carmelo Anthony, with 273 points, a feat that he was able to accomplish because he devoted so much more time to USA Basketball than any other GOAT candidate.

The analytics back him as a strong GOAT candidate…

Finally, as far as LeBron’s case to be considered the GOAT goes, the advanced stats insist that James is up there with anyone.

James currently sits second in career Box Plus/Minus, first in career Value Over Replacement Player, third in career Win Shares and third in career Player Efficiency Rating.

There’s more to basketball – and GOAT candidacy – than numbers, but James ranking near the top of every major advanced metric with time left in his career to finish even higher on the lists speaks volumes.

So even if you don’t think James has earned GOAT status quite yet, as he continues to amass accolades (and he’ll surely earn plenty more before his time in the league is done), isn’t it possible – if not likely – that you’ll change your mind? Particularly if he’s able to add another ring or two to his collection?

Time will tell a lot, but as is, James’ career is already one of the most impressive in sports history.

HoopsHype’s Alberto de Roa contributed to this article.

You can follow Frank Urbina on Twitter: @FrankUrbina_.

Michael Jordan: The case for GOAT status

HoopsHype looks at the numbers and accolades of various players to determine their case to be considered the GOAT – or Greatest of All Time.

HoopsHype looks at the numbers and accolades of various players to determine their case to be considered the GOAT – or Greatest of All Time.

Throughout the course of NBA history, a handful of players have submitted their cases – strong ones, at that – to be considered the league’s GOAT, the greatest of all time. Like Muhammad Ali in boxing or Lionel Messi in soccer, these NBA players not only produced unfathomable statistics, countless impressive victories and highlight reels that could go on for hours, they legitimately changed the history of the sport and became international cultural icons in the process. They were game-changers of the highest order.

HoopsHype is starting a series where we examine various historically elite player’s cases to be considered the NBA’s GOAT. Today, we begin with Michael Jordan. Let’s jump right in.

Michael Jordan changed how people view the game…

As many will remember, Jordan was taken third overall in the 1984 draft by the Chicago Bulls. That was despite him being the reigning Player of the Year in the NCAA, winning a national title at North Carolina as a freshman and averaging nearly 20 points and over five rebounds over his final two years in college.

The reason for that?

The NBA was still heavily a big man dominant league, one in which the thought process was that only power forwards and centers (usually the latter) had the ceiling to be the best players in the sport.

Needless to say, Jordan would go on to change that mindset.

He was undefeated in the Finals, with a record six Finals MVPs…

Jordan may not have the record for most championships won, but he does own the distinction of being the player with the most Finals MVP trophies in NBA history, with an astonishing six.

That’s twice as many as the four players who have the second-most Finals MVPs on their mantles, Magic JohnsonShaquille O’NealTim Duncan and LeBron James, who each have three.

His Airness more than earned those six awards, too, as Jordan, in 35 career Finals games, averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds, 6.0 assists and 1.8 steals, shooting 48.1 percent from the floor and 80.6 percent from the foul stripe while leading the Bulls to a 24-11 record in those outings.

He dominated on both ends of the floor, not just offense…

Jordan was seen as a relentless defender throughout his prime, one who could lock up foes on-one-on on the perimeter, as well as play passing lanes and rack up steals at elite levels. He would even serve as a rim protector at times when opponents thought they’d have an easy look at the rim.

For his contributions on that end of the floor, Jordan won one Defensive Player of the Year award in his career (1987-88), an extremely difficult honor to achieve for non-bigs, even to this day.

Additionally, Jordan has the third-most steals in league history (2,514) – and the only two players ahead of him, John Stockton and Jason Kidd, each played over 300 more games in their careers than he did – and has the fourth-highest nightly steals average (2.3). Jordan also owned the record for the most blocks by a guard in NBA history, until Dwyane Wade finally broke it in the 2018-19 season.

What’s more, Jordan was the first player in league history to achieve 1st Team All-Defense honors nine times in their career, a feat no one has been able to top, although Kobe BryantKevin Garnett and Gary Payton have all tied him with nine apiece.

(In fairness, the award didn’t come into existence until 1968-69, so it’s interesting to consider how many All-Defensive 1st Teams Bill Russell would have amassed. There’s a good chance he would have reached double digits. As is, he has one 1st Team All-Defense to his name.)

JEFF HAYNES/AFP via Getty Images

He brought millions of fans into the sport…

Jordan became a global icon during his peak in the NBA, one who was renowned around the world for his exploits, and one who helped the NBA reach new, previously unreached levels of popularity.

For proof of Jordan’s outreach, we need look no further than average ratings per regular-season games on broadcast networks. During Jordan’s final three seasons of his prime, the NBA averaged a record-high 5.0 average rating (1995-96), a 4.7 (1996-97) and a 4.8 (1997-98). After 1998-99, the NBA never reached an average rating of even a 4.0 again.

Just for comparison’s sake, the average rating in 2018-19 was 2.2, less than half of the averages during Jordan’s final Bulls years.

And that’s without even discussing Jordan’s popularity overseas when he became the most popular sports figure for a long stretch of time.

He had the highest peak of any basketball player ever…

Few players can come close to matching Jordan’s overall excellence, but none can match the prolonged peak he had in the NBA.

Jordan led the league in scoring seven seasons in a row, ranging from 1986-87 until his final season before his first retirement in 1992-93, averaging 33.2 points, 6.4 rebounds, 6.0 assists, 2.8 steals and 1.0 blocks on 51.8/31.1/84.6 shooting splits over that stretch. According to Box Plus/Minus, three of the top five individual seasons in league history belong to Jordan – and they all came during that seven-year run.

Couple that with all the awards Jordan earned during that stretch – three championships, three Finals MVPs, three regular-season MVPs, one Defensive Player of the Year, seven All-Star appearances and seven 1st Team All-NBA distinctions!

He’s alone in one certain historical accomplishment…

Speaking of awards, Jordan is the only player ever to win Rookie of the Year, MVP, Finals MVP and Defensive Player of the Year in their career.

Dominance.

He has the most combined regular-season and Finals MVPs…

Jordan may not be the player with the most regular-season MVP awards, as that honor belongs to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who won six to Jordan’s five, which is tied for the second-most along with Bill Russell. However, when combining Finals MVPs and regular-season MVPs, Jordan finishes at No. 1 with 11.

And there’s a good argument Jordan should have won more but was punished by voter fatigue who got tired of voting for the Bulls legend as MVP every single year.

Among the seasons Jordan had a strong case for MVP but didn’t win it were 1988-89 when it went to Magic Johnson, despite Jordan outpacing him in just about every raw and advanced metric, and 1996-97, when he led the league in scoring and headlined one of the best Bulls teams ever.

He boasted the best scoring average ever…

Partially because he retired twice before retiring for good after two seasons with the Washington Wizards (yes, that did happen no matter how badly we want to forget it), Jordan ranks merely fifth in points scored for his career with 32,292.

However, Jordan still ranks No. 1 overall in career scoring average at 30.12 points per game, an absolutely ridiculous feat in its own right. The only player who came close to matching Jordan in that stat is Wilt Chamberlain, who averaged 30.06 points per game for his career.

After those two comes Elgin Baylor, who is a full 2.7 points behind the first- and second-place finishers in the statistic, followed by the rest of the field trailing behind by an even wider margin.

He faced tougher much more physical defenses in his peak…

Perhaps the most ridiculous part of Jordan’s previously discussed seven-year peak is the fact that it came at a time where defenses were allowed to be extremely physical, edging the line of flat-out dirty. Players attacking the paint were often met with hip checks, elbows or straight-up tackles, and hand-checking was legal on the perimeter, making it even tough for ball-handlers to get good looks at the basket.

Was it the cleanest, most sportsman-like type of defense?

No, but it was very effective, particularly for teams of that era like the Detroit Pistons and New York Knicks, who used that defensive intensity/chippiness to win a whole lot of games.

And yet, Jordan was able to find massive amounts of success in that era anyway. That’s not to say modern NBA superstars wouldn’t be able to succeed in that era, too, but it’s noteworthy Jordan proved he could dominate against even against some of the most physical defenses the league has ever seen.

He won without loads of elite teammates…

Throughout Jordan’s career, only one of his Bulls teammates received All-NBA honors, and that was Scottie Pippen.

Jordan did have other talented teammates on those Chicago teams besides Pippen, of course, including guys like Dennis RodmanToni Kukoc and Horace Grant, but the fact that Pippen was the only one who could be considered a legitimate star alongside Jordan is noteworthy.

It’s a far cry from the current NBA, where super teams featuring All-Star duos and even trios being formed just about every offseason has become the norm.

HoopsHype’s Alberto de Roa contributed to this article.

You can follow Frank Urbina on Twitter: @FrankUrbina_.