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Who were the studs and and what were the duds from the New Orleans Saints’ 24-6 win over the New York Giants
The New Orleans Saints (7-7) dismantled the New York Giants (5-9) on Sunday, and it was largely thanks to the efforts of some veterans who rose to the occasion. It wasn’t a perfect performance, but it was close to an ideal game in Dennis Allen’s vision for this team.
Who made a difference on Sunday afternoon — for good or bad? Who stood out for positive and negative reasons? Let’s break down this week’s Studs and Duds:
New Orleans Saints OC Pete Carmichael admits that New York Giants edge rusher Kayvon Thibodeaux is a unique talent who presents a challenge.
When the New York Giants and New Orleans Saints take the field on Sunday, both teams will be as hungry for a win as the other.
The Saints are in a three-way tie in their division and need a win to separate themselves from the rest. The Giants are trying to establish that they’re still a contender in the Wild Card hunt.
A large part of the Giants’ recent success has been the play on the defensive side of the ball. Primarily the play of one Kayvon Thibodeaux, who has recorded 11.5 sacks and is ninth in the NFL in that department.
After practice on Friday, Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael was asked about Thibs’ sacks and what he does well.
“I think he rushes the passer extremely well, and I think that when you look at him, you see it, you see a variety of different things that he does. He’s obviously a guy that’s a difference-maker for them, so we have to be alert to where he is. He’s a challenge,” he said.
A challenge, indeed.
At the age of 23, Thibodeaux stands at 6-foot-5 and weighs 258 pounds, but his speed off the line is not representative of his size. He is athletic and has a high football IQ. His anticipation improves every week, and he learns throughout the game. He has more sacks in the fourth quarter this season than any other quarter.
Thibodeaux is definitely a challenge for opposing offenses. We’ll see what the Saints have in mind on Sunday and if it will be effective.
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The Saints’ opening drive touchdowns drought extended to 13 games against the Panthers:
This isn’t how you play a winning brand of football. The New Orleans Saints ended their opening drive against the Carolina Panthers with a missed field goal from the 29-yard line — alone, that’s a bad thing (especially for rookie kicker Blake Grupe, who is now the only specialist in the NFL with multiple misses inside 30 yards), but in the big picture it’s part of a concerning trend.
It meant the Saints offense extended its opening-drive touchdowns drought to 13 consecutive games. Like every team, the Saints scrip their first 12 to 15 plays each week to test the opponent’s vulnerabilities and gauge how the defense will react to what they’re being shown. These are often your staple plays that can reliably pick up yards and, hopefully, put points on the scoreboard.
But the Saints haven’t scored a single touchdown during their opening drives with Derek Carr at quarterback. Look at the results through 13 games, as noted by ESPN’s Katherine Terrell:
That’s discouraging. It’s downright dispiriting that this same play caller, Pete Carmichael, organized touchdown-scoring drives on his first possession in three of the last four games last year with Andy Dalton at quarterback. The receiving corps and offensive line are near-identical to what the Saints finished the season with. So why are they regressing? Carr has a lot of work to do to prove the critics who said the Saints were making a lateral move wrong.
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Saints’ second-half heroics can’t make up for too many early mistakes in a devastating loss to the Lions
You can’t say the New Orleans Saints don’t have any fight in them. They rallied from a 21-0 deficit to keep it close with the Detroit Lions in the second half, but it wasn’t enough: that late-game effort couldn’t make up for their mistakes early on. The Lions left as victors with a 33-28 final score.
What went wrong? Derek Carr missed an open receiver to force the ball to his tight end on the first play from scrimmage, which was dropped and intercepted by the Detroit defense, setting up a short field on their next touchdown-scoring drive. Things got worse before they got better.
The Lions ran for 142 yards as a team and Jared Goff didn’t turn the ball over after giving it away six times in his last two games. Rookie tight end Sam LaPorta was unstoppable, finishing with 9 receptions (on 9 targets) and 140 receiving yards plus a touchdown catch.
It wasn’t all bad. Carr was surprisingly efficient after the end of the first quarter, though he threw too many off-target passes that asked a lot of his receivers. Fortunately Chris Olave (5 catches for 119 yards) was up to the task. Alvin Kamara ended the afternoon with 58 receiving yards and 51 rushing yards with two scoring runs. Taysom Hill impacted both phases, leading the team with 59 rushing yards and catching two passes for 15 receiving yards. Pete Carmichael made some clever play calls, picking up chunks of yardage on play action passes to Olave and Foster Moreau. They went 4-for-4 in the red zone.
But, again, it wasn’t enough. The offense showed too little too late to make a difference. Dennis Allen’s handmade defense was shredded. A 5-7 record is the best showing Allen has ever had after Week 13. This is his ceiling, and the Saints shouldn’t mistake it for anything else.
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The Saints haven’t stacked up well against their division rivals in the NFC South. They’ve been outscored 67-44 so far, with three rematches yet to go:
It’s tough to win your division when you can’t beat the other teams that reside in it. The New Orleans Saints haven’t stacked up well against their NFC South rivals this season: they’ve been outscored 67-44 so far, with three rematches yet to go. And much of the blame falls on Derek Carr and Pete Carmichael’s underperforming offense.
The Saints had 11 possessions in their Week 2 game with the Carolina Panthers, resulting in two touchdowns, two field goals, an interception, and five punts, plus the end of game kneel-down.
In Week 4, New Orleans again had 11 drives, which ended with three field goals, an interception, two fumbles, and four punts along with an end of half kneel-down. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers offense was never seriously threatened by the Saints.
And in Week 12 against the Falcons, Carr’s unit had the ball on 10 series and ended the day without much to write home about: six field goals (one unsuccessful), an interception, and a fumble, but just one punt, again kneeling the clock out before halftime.
So let’s tally that up. Across three games with the specific teams the Saints must defeat the win the NFC South, New Orleans has had the ball 32 times and managed just two touchdowns — both scored by running back Tony Jones Jr., who isn’t on the team anymore.
Now, these divisional matchups are always tough. Because the teams face each other twice each season, they become common opponents with known tendencies and vulnerabilities that can be exploited. When the Saints are still running the same plays that Drew Brees perfected half a decade ago with vastly inferior personnel, mistakes are going to get magnified and the teams that know those plays best are going to feast. That’s exactly what we’re seeing.
The good news is that the Saints still have time to fight back. They’ll have rematches coming up with the Panthers (in Week 14), the Buccaneers (in Week 17), and the Falcons (in Week 18). They must quickly hammer out what’s tripping them up offensively and find ways to put points on the board. Settling for field goals over and over again isn’t cutting it. For all the star talent on the roster and all the hundreds of millions of dollars on payroll, they don’t have much to show for it.
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Derek Carr finished November with just two touchdown passes and one win. The Saints are not getting a great return on his $150 million contract:
It’s fair to say the New Orleans Saints have not gotten a great return on their investment in Derek Carr. The veteran quarterback’s $150 million contract resulted in just two touchdown passes through the month of November — a three-game stretch interrupted by their bye week.
As noted by ESPN’s Katherine Terrell, Carr’s last touchdown pass was a 2-yard strike to Taysom Hill in the second quarter of their Nov. 5 game with the Chicago Bears. Both teams traded field goals before Hill threw the game-winning touchdown pass to Juwan Johnson late in regulation.
Carr’s struggles to end drives with touchdowns have only grown more pronounced as the season continues. The offense managed just three points in two and a half quarters when he left the Minnesota Vikings game with an injury. When Carr returned after the bye week for a road game with the Atlanta Falcons, the Saints went 0-for-5 on drives reaching the red zone.
Those five possessions ended with three field goals, Carr’s ugly interception to Falcons safety Jessie Bates III (which was returned 92 yards for a backbreaking defensive touchdown), and a fumble by Hill that set up a nine-play, 95-yard scoring drive for Atlanta. It’s been a disaster.
And really that’s the only way to look at Carr’s turn as the starting quarterback for New Orleans. He’s managed just 10 touchdown passes in 11 games while throwing 5 interceptions and fumbling 5 times (twice losing possession). His performances with the Las Vegas Raiders the last two years were the lowest of his career, but he’s playing even worse now that he’s exchanged his silver helmet for a gold one.
Carr deserves plenty of blame for the Saints’ problems this season. So does his play caller Pete Carmichael. But ultimately the buck stops with the head coach who empowered (or settled for) both of them: Dennis Allen. Carr was Allen’s handpicked quarterback, and Carmichael was who he stuck with after failing to recruit an offensive coordinator in each of his two years in charge. Drastic changes are needed for the Saints to live up to the standards they’ve set for themselves.
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The Saints were left in shambles after a disastrous Week 12 loss to the Falcons. Dennis Allen and Derek Carr have a lot to answer for:
The mask is off, and we know who the New Orleans Saints are: a bad football team whose deficiencies were covered up by their too-good-to-be-true spot on top of the NFC South standings. They lost to the Atlanta Falcons 24-15 and fell to second place in the division.
Dennis Allen can’t point to the NFC South standings anymore as a reason for optimism. That became a favorite tactic of his and the diehards still supporting him as issues piled up for the Saints. Between Pete Carmichael’s predictable play calling and Derek Carr’s consistently poor execution, there were plenty of dirty hands on offense — and flaws were exposed defensively and in the special teams units. But time and again Allen and his camp could say, hey, this is still a first-place football team.
And now that excuse is gone. And it was always fake. The Saints haven’t beaten a team worth bragging about all season. So where will Allen turn now? He got his quarterback, he was given the easiest schedule in the NFL, and for the first ten weeks he had the healthiest roster in pro football. And he has nothing to show for it. The Saints gambled big and they’re losing badly.
They’re left in shambles after this loss to the Falcons. Multiple starters left with injuries like wide receivers Chris Olave (concussion) and Rashid Shaheed (thigh) while offensive linemen Erik McCoy and Ryan Ramczyk were also banged up. Now they have a losing record, a devastating loss to their biggest rival, and a lame duck coach and quarterback. There’s six games left to turn it around, but this group has their work cut out for them in winning back fans’ trust.
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Has Pete Carmichael really performed as badly as Matt Canada? How the Saints and Steelers offenses compare through 10 games:
Pittsburgh Steelers fans are celebrating the team’s decision to move on from offensive coordinator Matt Canada, and a lot of New Orleans Saints faithful are hoping for the same turn of events. Pete Carmichael has struggled to elevate an offense flush with talent at the skills position and heavy investments along the offensive line — not to mention the addition of Derek Carr, who the Saints see as their franchise quarterback now and for years to come.
Canada didn’t meet expectations in Pittsburgh. Carmichael hasn’t met the standards set in New Orleans, either, but the Saints don’t appear to be ready to make a change. So how far apart are they? How has Carmichael’s Saints offense compared to the Canada’s Steelers squad which was found lacking? Let’s compare:
The Steelers fired offensive coordinator Matt Canada, leading Saints fans on social media to say Pete Carmichael should be next:
Whew: the 6-4 Pittsburgh Steelers made the decision to move on from embattled offensive coordinator Matt Canada on Tuesday, naming running backs coach Eddie Faulkner his replacement and handing play-calling responsibilities to quarterbacks coach Mike Sullivan. It’s a bold move for a team fielding one of the league’s worst offenses.
And many New Orleans Saints fans on social media quickly spoke up in the wake of Canada’s ouster, saying that Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael should be the next struggling play caller to be dismissed. Some went further, suggesting it’s time for the Saints to move on from head coach Dennis Allen as well.
The Saints may be 5-5, but they are in first place in the NFC South, so it’s a different situation from the Steelers (who are in third place in the AFC North). Still, here’s what Saints fans and analysts had to say online:
Despite being a defensive coach, Dennis Allen’s choice to not make offensive changes should reflect on him.
The New Orleans Saints have been in the same place all season long. They are good enough to compete in and win a bad division but not good enough to inspire confidence for a playoff run. Because New Orleans is always in contention for the NFC South, the fans have to constantly hear the dreaded “we can still win the division” line or some variation of it. That’s a true statement and is the reason the Saints are opting to not make coaching staff changes.
The desire for change comes on the offensive side. Head coach Dennis Allen leads the defense. Despite their first half struggles, it is unlikely there will be changes defensively. That doesn’t mean he should be absolved from responsibility; Allen should shoulder a lot of responsibility for the state of the offense.
As the head coach, he has sat and watched the offense be inconsistent with no real attempt to jumpstart it. If Allen wants the Saints to keep doing what they’re doing, he should also be held accountable for the results.
The likely scenario is if the offense doesn’t improve, offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael will suffer the consequences. The issue with the offense is the talent appears to be there. They have playmakers in Alvin Kamara, Chris Olave, Rashid Shaheed, Michael Thomas, Juwan Johnson, and Taysom Hill, plus an offensive line stocked with first- and second-round draft picks. And a quarterback who has seen it all in Derek Carr. A lot of struggles boil down to coaching, so replacing the play caller makes sense.
However, Allen has chosen to not switch play callers for two seasons. For that reason, his fate should be just as much tied to the offensive success as Carmichael. If things don’t pick up after the bye week, the Saints must consider wholesale changes sooner rather than later.
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