We went back through the history books to find the 20 NBA players who have earned the most money while playing for losing clubs.
Usually, NBA teams have the goal of paying their top athletes boatloads of money in hopes of having those players lead their franchises to the playoffs and beyond. Of course, things don’t always work out that way. Sometimes, injuries take place and get in the way of even the savviest or safest of plans. And other times, the talent on the rest of the roster behind the max-level players isn’t up to par, bringing the team as a whole down.
Below, we break down the 20 players who have earned the most money from teams with losing records.
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15. TYSON CHANDLER
Total years played: 19 Years with losing record: 10 Earnings with losing teams: $85,919,258 ($96,697,515 adjusted to inflation)
He’s made the playoffs nine times and has an NBA title on his resume, but Tyson Chandler has actually spent the majority of his career on losing teams and been paid handsomely during his times on those teams. His three-plus year stint with the Phoenix Suns particularly stands out in that regard.
14. BROOK LOPEZ
Total years played: 11 Years with losing record: 8 Earnings with losing teams: $89,030,768 ($95,624,188)
Floor-spacing center Brook Lopez has been doing a whole lot of winning over the past season and a half, but this is a recent development. Prior to 2018-19 with the Milwaukee Bucks, Lopez had only made the playoffs twice in his career and had actually endured eight losing seasons out of his first 10 as a professional. Those New Jersey and then Brooklyn Nets teams were usually pretty bad.
13. BARON DAVIS
Total years played: 15 Years with losing record: 7 Earnings with losing teams: $91,180,000 ($109,914,185)
Baron Davis was as entertaining a point guard as any during his prime, with solid athleticism and eye-popping ball-handling abilities, with impressive vision as a passer, to boot. He made the playoffs each of the first five years of his career but only made it twice more over the final 10 seasons he spent in the NBA, a byproduct of spending time on struggling Cavaliers, Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers teams.
12. ZACH RANDOLPH
Total years played: 18 Years with losing record: 8 Earnings with losing teams: $92,170,939 ($108,543,128)
A cult hero for his time with the Portland Trail Blazers and Memphis Grizzlies, Zach Randolph won more than he lost in his career, as fewer than half of his 18 career seasons had a losing record attached to them. At his peak, Randolph was earning $17.8 million per season and did so as a member of the successful Grit-and-Grind Grizzlies, who usually performed well in the playoffs.
11. KOBE BRYANT
Total years played: 20 Years with losing record: 4 Earnings with losing teams: $93,128,000 ($104,634,234)
Legendary 2-guard Kobe Bryant only missed the playoffs four times in his illustrious career, once in 2004-05 in the Los Angeles Lakers’ first season without Shaquille O’Neal, and three times at the very end of it when the team was forced to rebuild around Bryant. Regardless, he finds his way fairly high up on this list because in his final three seasons he made a combined $79 million. That’s not to say he wasn’t worth every penny, of course, as Bryant more than earned his fortunes as a player.
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10. HARRISON BARNES
Total years played: 8 Years with losing record: 4 Earnings with losing teams: $93,483,739 ($96,324,681)
His first four seasons were quite successful as a member of the Golden State Warriors, but after that, Harrison Barnes’ team success has plummeted during his time with the Dallas Mavericks (pre-Luka Doncic) and Sacramento Kings. Barnes recently signed another four-year contract with Sacramento, one worth $85 million, so if they don’t turn things around soon as a franchise, he’ll find his way up even higher on these rankings in the future.
9. JUWAN HOWARD
Total years played: 22 Years with losing record: 11
Earnings with losing teams: $94,640,843 ($136,114,261)
Despite playing for 22 seasons, Juwan Howard only made the playoffs seven times, two of which came at the very end of his career as a deep reserve for the Big 3 Heat. Howard signed one enormous contract in his career, worth seven years and $105 million courtesy of the Wizards. Unfortunately, he only made the playoffs once while with Washington prior to getting traded in the 2000-01 season.
8. JOE JOHNSON
Total years played: 19 Years with losing record: 7 Earnings with losing teams: $94,663,379 ($109,405,674)
Only seven of his 19 career seasons were losing ones, but Joe Johnson made so much money those years that he finds himself in the Top 10 of these rankings anyway. Johnson reached the playoffs 13 times in his career, getting as far as the conference finals multiple times. He once signed a six-year, $123.7 million contract, an enormous deal for its time.
7. CARMELO ANTHONY
Total years played: 16 Years with losing record: 5 Earnings with losing teams: $95,935,697 ($100,796,083)
Much is usually made about Carmelo Anthony not being a winning player (whatever that means), but the future Hall-of-Famer has only endured five losing seasons so far in his career and reached the postseason in all of the first 10 years that he was in the NBA. Then, the Melo New York Knicks of the mid-2010s completely fell apart, and Anthony didn’t make the playoffs again until 2017-18 as a member of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
6. SHAREEF ABDUR-RAHIM
Total years played: 13 Years with losing record: 12
Earnings with losing teams: $96,221,760 ($135,141,973)
Of the 13 seasons one-time All-Star Shareef Abdur-Rahim spent in the NBA, 12 of them were spent on losing teams, including the then-Vancouver Grizzlies, Atlanta Hawks and Kings. Abdur-Rahim was part of the last Kings team to make the playoffs in 2005-06, an impressive accomplishment for the player who spent so much of his career on poor squads. Abdur-Rahim never reached $15 million in annual salary, but when you spend so much time on losing teams, it adds up.
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5. KEVIN LOVE
Total years played: 12 Years with losing record: 8 Earnings with losing teams: $96,237,212 ($102,083,758)
Tasked with playing for two pretty dysfunctional organizations in his career, the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Cleveland Cavaliers, has caused Kevin Love to know losing a lot more than he has known winning as an NBA player. Even so, Love did get to enjoy four years as LeBron James’ teammate, and the duo experienced a whole lot of success over that run, including winning the 2015-16 championship, so it hasn’t been all bad of the floor-spacing big man.
4. RUDY GAY
Total years played: 14 Years with losing record: 10 Earnings with losing teams: $104,417,071 ($113,450,141)
Cursed with spending the start of his career with bad Grizzlies teams and his prime with the tumultuous post-Chris Webber Sacramento Kings, Rudy Gay has only made the playoffs three times in his career, twice with the San Antonio Spurs as a role player. Regardless, Gay had the talent to earn a handsome salary anyway, peaking at nearly $20 million in 2014-15 with the Kings, which is why he ranks so highly on these rankings.
3. ELTON BRAND
Total years played: 19 Years with losing record: 13 Earnings with losing teams: $105,180,654 ($133,520,150)
Elton Brand was an absurd talent before injuries took away his athleticism, earning All-NBA honors in 2005-06 and making two All-Star rosters as well. His talent alone, though, wasn’t enough to help him enjoy much success when he was his teams’ focal point, as he spent the early portion of his career with the post-Michael Jordan Bulls, then enjoying his prime with the Clippers before they got good. Injuries really prevented him from ever finding that peak form with the Philadelphia 76ers, where he spent four seasons after his time in L.A., though he did make the playoffs twice while there.
2. NICOLAS BATUM
Total years played: 12 Years with losing record: 6 Earnings with losing teams: $106,974,931 ($111,383,962)
Well-rounded swingman Nicolas Batum enjoyed a good amount of team success as a member of the Blazers early in his career, but since signing a monstrous five-year, $120 million contract with the Charlotte Hornets, it’s been downhill for him, both individually and as far as winning goes. Batum hasn’t made the playoffs in the last four years and even went so far as to apologize to Hornets fans for failing to deliver on his contract.
1. STEPHON MARBURY
Total years played: 13 Years with losing record: 11
Earnings with losing teams: $136,474,625 ($181,971,511)
Stephon Marbury was a highly popular player in his prime, thanks to his theatrical style and clutch bucket-getting prowess. He made two All-Star teams and two All-NBA teams during that stretch, but that didn’t lead to much team success, as Marbury enjoyed just two winning campaigns in his 13 years as an NBA player. To be fair, he did make the playoffs five times, four of those coming in his prime.
Chris Paul-to-the-Knicks rumors date back to as far as 10 years ago when Paul made a toast at Carmelo Anthony’s wedding talking about a Big Three in New York with Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. Once Anthony got moved to the Knicks, Paul reportedly …
Chris Paul-to-the-Knicks rumors date back to as far as 10 years ago when Paul made a toast at Carmelo Anthony’s wedding talking about a Big Three in New York with Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. Once Anthony got moved to the Knicks, Paul reportedly requested a trade there as well in December 2011 after the lockout ended. He later expanded his choice of cities to Los Angeles, and would eventually be traded to the Los Angeles Clippers.
Ten years later, the Knicks could be preparing to make another run at Paul. The almost 35-year old is having another strong year where the Oklahoma City Thunder have greatly exceeded expectations under Paul’s leadership and sit in sixth place in the West with a 39-24 record, only a game and a half behind fourth place. Aside from winning in what was expected to be a rebuilding season, he has been a tremendous backcourt partner with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who picked up a lot from Paul both on and off the court.
Statistically, his points, rebounds, assists, and steals have gradually dropped since 2015-16 while his minutes aren’t significantly lower. While those numbers don’t jump out at you, it’s his impact metrics that speak volumes to his level of play. He currently ranks No. 8 in player impact plus-minus (PIPM). He also ranks ninth in both Win Shares and Offensive Win Shares.
Perhaps the biggest thing for his team is his availability. Paul has played in 62 of 63 games so far in 2019-20, which would be on track to be his healthiest season since 2015-16, when he only missed eight games.
Can the Knicks expect the same level of developmental leadership, production, and availability if they acquire Paul? It’s quite a lot to hope for, but what Paul can mean for the development of their young players alone may be worth the remaining $85.6 million remaining on his contract. RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith Jr., and Frank Ntilikina can all improve their offensive facilitation and defense with Paul. The Knicks can’t expect their young players to replicate the strides Gilgeous-Alexander made under Paul, but just learning how to play organized basketball under one of the best floor generals of all-time could have enough value to justify a trade for him.
Acquiring Paul shouldn’t be complicated for the Knicks. They have enough salary-filler to get CP3 and adequate young players and future draft picks to interest the Thunder. The Knicks only need to send out $32.987,051 in salary to acquire Paul’s $41,358,814 cap hit for 2020-21. They can guarantee a combination of Taj Gibson ($9.45 million), Wayne Ellington ($8 million), Elfrid Payton ($8 million), and Reggie Bullock ($4.2 million), and package them with one or two of their young players to reach the minimum outgoing salary amount.
Feb 12, 2020; New York, New York, USA; New York Knicks small forward Maurice Harkless (3) laughs during the fourth quarter against the Washington Wizards at Madison Square Garden. Mandatory Credit: Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports
It would be a lot easier if the Knicks maximized their cap space and absorbed Paul into it, only needing to send draft compensation. The Knicks can get to $46 million in cap space this offseason by waiving all their non-guaranteed players except Mitchell Robinson, declining the $15.75 million team option on Bobby Portis, and renouncing all their free agent cap holds. This would also mean forfeiting the Bird rights and early Bird rights of Maurice Harkless and Allonzo Trier, respectively.
The Thunder, who are currently projected to operate over the cap, would be able to generate a traded player exception (TPE) worth Paul’s 2020-21 salary. This would allow them to trade for just about anyone without giving back salary, while also being able to re-sign, or sign-and-trade, Danilo Gallinari through his Bird rights. Alternatively, they could choose to generate close to $50 million in cap space. Getting off Paul’s salary would open up a ridiculous amount of flexibility and roster-building opportunities for the Thunder.
The cap space route would gut the Knicks, however, leaving them only with about half a roster and only about $5 million in cap space, the $5 million room mid-level (R-MLE), and minimum contracts to fill out the rest of the roster. Ideally, they’d like to be as competitive as possible with Paul by keeping one or two of their non-guaranteed players while also being able to make competitive offers to re-sign their own free agents.
If the Knicks have Paul and he opts into his $44.2 million player option for 2021-22, as expected, it would interfere with their 2021 cap space. It is still very early to project for 2021, but they can generate about $66 million in cap space in 2021 and can reach $80 million if they waive Julius Randle, who will only be guaranteed for $4 million. Having Paul would cut those projections in half, making it likely they can only offer one maximum contract instead of two.
The Knicks only signed 1-2 year deals with the free agents they signed in 2019 in hopes of keeping a clean sheet for 2021 free agency. That is the summer when players like Giannis Antentokounmpo, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, and several other All-Stars can all hit the market. If the Knicks feel they have a better shot at signing one of these players with Paul on the roster, then losing one maximum slot may be worth acquiring him if it means actually signing a star with the other.
Although the Knicks certainly have the means and flexibility to acquire Paul, would he still be interested in joining them 10 years later? The Knicks two-decade-long string of dysfunction may have him feeling grateful that he never actually got traded to them. Their most recent public embarrassment involved Knicks fan and longtime season ticket holder Spike Lee, whom Paul showed support for. This cannot bode well for their chances to get him on board with their program.
Of course, Paul cannot veto a trade to the Knicks if he wanted to but he can certainly influence his destination if he voices his displeasure. But if someone on the Knicks could convince Paul to buy in, it would be their new president of basketball operations, Leon Rose, who has represented Paul as his agent in the past.
The upcoming 2020 offseason won’t be nearly as fruitful as 2019. Right now only seven teams are projected with the ability to generate cap space that exceeds the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (NT-MLE). Only two of them, Atlanta and …
The upcoming 2020 offseason won’t be nearly as fruitful as 2019. Right now only seven teams are projected with the ability to generate cap space that exceeds the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (NT-MLE). Only two of them, Atlanta and Detroit, are projected to generate maximum cap space. All together they combine to generate just over $200 million in cap space. That figure pales in comparison to the more than $600 million that was available in 2019.
After the NBA trade deadline passed, several teams made moves that helped settle the cap landscape. For the most part, the amount is set but there could be some more teams creating or reducing cap space ahead of June 30.
The 2020-21 NBA Salary Cap is currently projected at $115 million. All projections include the 120 percent rookie scale amount for the pick each team is projected to finish with according to Five Thirty Eight’s Elo Forecast.
CAP SPACE TEAMS
Atlanta Hawks: $51 million
The Atlanta Hawks are set to have the most cap space this summer with $50.9 million available. This would be assuming they renounce all cap holds and waive Brandon Goodwin. Prior to trading for Clint Capela and Dewayne Dedmon, the Hawks were projected to have more than $70 million in cap space, which was way too much to spend in this free agency.
$50 million can also be considered too much for the Hawks given their current team. Atlanta has point guard and big men needs filled, so they could use their cap space on wing players. They also can’t spend too much on wings because they need to reserve playing time for Kevin Huerter, DeAndre Hunter, and Cam Reddish. They could also look to acquire bad contracts with a future first-round pick attached to get more trade assets. It’s also possible they don’t spend all their cap space and roll it over into the season, like they did this year. With no particular targets for them right now, it will be fascinating to see how they utilize money.
New York Knicks: $46 million
The New York Knicks are the other team that has maximum cap space. If they waive all players on non-guaranteed deals except Mitchell Robinson, and they decline Bobby Portis‘ $15.75 million player option, the Knicks are projected with $45.9 million in cap space.
It is unclear if the Knicks want to maximize their cap space this summer, as waiving Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton, and Reggie Bullock would be required to get them to $46 million. All four of those players become fully guaranteed on June 28th, so the Knicks will need to decide before the start of free agency just how much cap space they want to have. If they do utilize cap space, they will probably only offer one-year deals in order to maximize their 2021 cap space.
Detroit Pistons: $32 million
The Detroit Pistons are projected to generate as much as $35 million if they maximize their cap space. They are likely looking at a little closer to $32 million assuming they keep Bruce Brown and Svi Mykhailiuk (both earning $1.7 million) and they hold onto Christian Wood and Jordan McRae’s early bird rights.
Prior to the trade deadline, the Pistons weren’t guaranteed to be a cap space team because of Andre Drummond‘s impending decision on his player option. After trading him and buying out Markieff Morris, who declined his contract option as part of the buyout agreement, the Pistons now have enough cap space to offer a maximum contract worth 30 percent of the salary cap for players with 7-9 years of service. Very little has been said about their free-agent targets, but according to James L. Edwards III of The Athletic, they plan on pursuing Fred VanVleet.
Charlotte Hornets $28 million
The Charlotte Hornets are projected to generate $26.7 million in cap space assuming Nicolas Batum opts into his $27.1 million salary and they renounce all cap holds. They remained quiet at the deadline and there is no indication they’ll waive the non-guaranteed deals of Caleb Martin or Jalen McDaniels ($1.5 million each) which would increase their cap space to $28.5 million.
Miami Heat: $26.5 million
The Heat are now projected to have cap space after their big trade with the Memphis Grizzlies. Prior to the deadline, the Grizzlies were projected to have $52.8 million available, but instead transferred a large portion of it to the Heat by taking on Dion Waiters and James Johnson in order to acquire Justise Winslow. The Heat are projected to generate $26.5 million in cap space assuming Kelly Olynyk opts-in and they hold onto Derrick Jones Jr.‘s bird rights.
With their eyes set on 2021 maximum cap space, they are unlikely to offer free-agent targets more than a one-year deal. One player they can target with all their cap space is Danilo Gallinari, whom they pursued in February. $26.5 million is close to the maximum amount Gallinari can receive in a contract extension. If they can’t sign any of their targets, they could operate over the cap to re-sign free agents like Goran Dragic and Jae Crowder and also have the mid-level exception to use.
ON-THE-FENCE CAP SPACE TEAMS
Phoenix Suns: $25 million
The Suns can generate as much as $24.6 million in cap space if they renounce all their free agent cap holds and decline all their player options. This would mean likely parting ways with Dario Saric, Aron Baynes, Frank Kaminsky, Elie Okobo, and Cheick Diallo. They could opt to keep a combination of these players, but with the chance to have close to $25 million in cap space they might not hesitate to let them all go. Other than Baynes, none of the players have made a strong impression for the Suns. They can hold onto his bird rights which would put their cap space in the $15 million range, but it could be a worthwhile bet for them to let him to test the market, spend cap space, then try to re-sign him for the room mid-level exception projected at $5 million.
New Orleans Pelicans: $17 million
The Pelicans could generate $16.8 million in cap space if they waive the non-guaranteed contract of Darius Miller ($7 million), and hold onto Brandon Ingram‘s cap hold ($21.8 million. This means the Pelicans could spend that much cap space and then re-sign Ingram, but it would mean renouncing Bird rights to other free agents such as Derrick Favors, E’Twaun Moore, Frank Jackson, and Kenrich Williams. It’s unlikely the Pelicans go the cap space route unless they can sign a player they covet over their free agents.
The rest of the league is likely looking at operating over the salary cap. These teams’ largest means for signing free agents will mostly come through the nontaxpayer mid-level exception projected at $9.8 million, and for few, the taxpayer mid-level exception projected at $6 million. More teams can jump into the mix if they reduce significant salary or if a player with a large player option unexpectedly opts out.
On The HoopsHype Podcast, Alex Kennedy had a wide-ranging chat with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. Cuban discussed life as a billionaire, his success as a businessman, Luka Doncic’s incredible play, how Dirk Nowitzki is helping Doncic reach his full potential, the NBA’s mid-season tournament idea, how he’d fix NBA officiating, the time he faced Nowitzki in one-on-one and more. You can listen to the full interview above or read a transcribed version below:
You bought the Dallas Mavericks for $285 million in 2000. Now, Forbes estimates that the Mavs’ valuation is around $2.4 billion. You’re great at forecasting this stuff, but back then, did you ever think we’d get to this point where your Mavs would be worth over $2 billion?
Mark Cuban: Honestly, I didn’t even care. I didn’t buy it with the idea that it was an appreciating asset. I just bought it because I love basketball and I wanted to have fun with it. It never even crossed my mind what it may or may not be worth.
You’ve talked about struggling to make ends meet in your 20s, eating ketchup-and-mustard sandwiches and sleeping on the floor as one of six roommates in a three-bedroom apartment. How did experiencing those tough times help you achieve success later?
MC: I mean, when your back is against the wall, you realize that you have to dig in and get things done. You can’t just accept it like, “Okay, this is the way it is, everything is kosher. It’s no big deal.” It sucked. (laughs) I had fun and I was loving my life, but nobody likes sleeping on the floor and not having your own closet or drawers. It was nasty. That really motivated me. That kept me working and pushing. And since then, even on Shark Tank, it really helps me relate with entrepreneurs and it helps me recognize good entrepreneurs. The best entrepreneurs are the ones who have had their back against the wall and who have experienced failure and the worst scenarios because that motivates them. It motivated me and, now, it helps me recognize that motivation in other people as well.
In 1990, after you sold MicroSolutions for $6 million, you briefly decided to retire at 32 years old. A lot of people dream of getting rich and retiring young, but you obviously didn’t stay retired long. What was early retirement like and what did you learn from that experience?
MC: It was fun! (laughs) I sold the company, bought a lifetime pass on American Airlines and my goal was just to travel and party like a rock star. And I got really good at it! I just wanted to have beers and drink with as many people as possible, and that’s exactly what I did. I just traveled and hung out. I got a place in Manhattan Beach in Los Angeles, took acting classes and met people. I just had fun, doing whatever I could to enjoy myself. Then, I started dating a girl and came back to Dallas. We broke up, but I connected with one of my college buddies, Todd Wagner, and the internet was just starting to happen. Todd was like, “Mark, you’re a tech geek; you had that networking company that you sold and you’ve written software, so can you figure out how to use this internet thing and find a way for us to listen to Indiana [Hoosiers’] basketball games?” I was like, “I can try.” That basically led to me starting AudioNet with Todd and that effectively was the start of the streaming industry.
You’ve said that you were rich before you were super rich, but walk me through that first moment as a billionaire and that first week where you can basically buy whatever you want.
MC: It was surreal, just like it is now. You realize that you have more money than you could ever possibly dream of and it’s something that doesn’t seem real. Even today – every day – when it hits me, I’m just like, “Oh my God. How the hell did this happen? How is this possible?!” I’m self-aware enough – or at least I think I am – that I know part of this was from hard work, but a big chunk of it was luck. I just try to appreciate it and not take it for granted and not let it spoil me or my kids.
What are the biggest misconceptions about being a billionaire?
MC: I don’t know, I guess it’s not something that I’ve thought about. I guess if I had to pick something, it’s that everybody thinks that money changes you. And it can, in a lot of respects, but it doesn’t have to. Even when I was dead-ass broke and sleeping on the floor, I was hanging out with my friends and just doing whatever. Well, those guys are still my same friends now. We’re older now, but we still do some of the same stupid sh** that we used to do back then – just like anyone when they get together with their friends. I think the biggest misconception is that having that much money has to change you and in a big way. Like with anybody else, having more money than you did when you were broke changes you some, but it doesn’t have to change you a lot and I think that’s the biggest misconception.
The hardest part, really, is just dealing with friends when it first happens. They’re the ones who aren’t quite sure if you’re going to be the same person or how you’re going to act. They’re wondering, “Are you always going to pick up the check or only sometimes going to pick up the check?” It’s a little bit of an adjustment period, but your true friends stay your true friends and I’ve been blessed in that way.
I’d imagine that going out in public has to be crazy too. I’m sure many people want to pitch you their ideas, especially with the success of Shark Tank. What’s it like being bombarded with so many pitches?
MC: I mean, it’s a good problem to have. Let me just say: Shark Tank is now on Friday nights on ABC – I have to get that plug in there. Tune in, it’s great! (laughs) But yeah, it’s a good problem to have. I get pitched everywhere – from the urinals to restaurants to Mavs games to walking down the street, you name it. It’s easy for me to just say, “Email me.” Or I’ll tell them, “You have 30 seconds, give me the elevator pitch.” If it’s somebody that I think is sincere, then I’ll give them a legit response. If I think somebody is just trying to take advantage or not being sincere in some way, then I’ll just say, “I can’t do it.” But, again, I can think of far worse problems to have!
Reading your interviews, it’s clear how much your family means to you. You’ve said, “If I was single, I’d run for president.” You’ve also said that you were interested in purchasing the Pittsburgh Pirates when you were single, but now you want to spend more time with your children. How did starting a family change you as a person and as a businessman?
MC: It’s changed me so much; it’s night and day. Your priorities change. When my kids were little, they weren’t quite people yet. (laughs) They were kind of mommy’s kids and it wasn’t as impactful yet. But as they’ve gotten older and got to be 7, 8, 9 years old – and now they are 10, 13 and 16 – you see that they’re real people and they have real personalities and they’re unique. They’re my babies, so spending time with them has become a priority. I’m lucky because I don’t have to stress about bills, I don’t have to worry if they’re going to turn my lights off again and stuff like that, which I had to worry about in the past. I don’t have to worry about money and I can set my own schedule, so I try to spend as much time with them as I can. The hard part isn’t me trying to find time to spend with them, the hard part is convincing them to spend time with me – as every parent knows. (laughs) It’s been fun. And in terms of how it changed me from a business perspective, I look at ideas and things from the perspective of, “How is this going to impact my kids, and is there an opportunity there for them in the future?”
Photo by Dia Dipasupil/Getty Images
If you woke up tomorrow and had an average 9-to-5 job that didn’t pay much, but you still had all of your knowledge, what are some things you would do in order to put yourself in a better position financially?
MC: I’d probably get a job working as a bartender at night, just to make sure I had enough money to make ends meet. During the day, I’d probably start a company that did Alexa, Cortana and Google Home installation, configurations and customization for people. More and more people have an Alexa or Google Home in their house, but nobody knows how to really configure them to make them work well. I could go out there and charge $25-to-$50 an hour to do that. It’s not hard to learn; it’s really easy to stay up-to-date with that, but most people just don’t do it. I could also do that for businesses and, now, Alexa is being put in cars so there are ways to set up scripts for that. I think that would be one thing that I did. And I spend a lot of time trying to learn and understand as much as I can about artificial intelligence. I’d probably start a complementary business or, as part of my first business, I’d help small businesses apply artificial intelligence because it’s really hard for them to do. Most of them don’t understand it and they can’t afford to do it by themselves.
You’ve said that ignoring artificial intelligence right now is like being in 1999 and not being able to use the internet. Do you see similarities there?
MC: Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, not even so much the internet because by the time the internet came along, people knew what would happen, they just didn’t know when. But [it reminds me of] the early days of computing when people didn’t understand the value of connecting PCs into local area networks. People used to just laugh at that. Or with remote communications, people just dismissed it and then their businesses suffered. Now, it’s A.I. and A.I. is hard. It’s harder to understand than the internet with web pages and JavaScript. It’s harder to understand than LANs and PCs and software. It’s a lot more complicated and doing it requires a lot more cost since you’re using Amazon Web Services or the different cloud services and it’s hard to know if you’re using the right data and if you’re getting it right when calculating things. It’s a lot more complicated and takes a lot more time, which makes it difficult for small businesses. Big businesses have it and understand it – the Googles, Facebooks, etc. We’re kind of in a world where companies are haves and have nots when it comes to A.I. It’s interesting because how it applies to sports, teams are starting to invest more than a lot of regular companies and they’re trying to understand the impact A.I. can have. It’s not just a hot area, it’s an important area and the impact is going to be enormous.
There’s no question that after you bought the Mavericks, you pumped resources into the franchise and really improved the team’s culture…
MC: We had this big German guy who helped out a lot too. (laughs)
Yeah, he was decent. But you bought a new team plane, hired a bunch of assistant coaches and upgraded things like the locker room and Jumbotron. How much of an advantage is it for a team to have a great owner with deep pockets?
MC: I mean, it makes a difference. It’s not so much about having a great owner, you just don’t want to have a bad one, you know? (laughs) I’d say that 90 percent of the owners in the NBA are really good. But the reality is that it’s not even about having deep pockets, it’s more about being open to new ideas and having a willingness to really dig in and learn. This game isn’t easy. It’s hard to win a championship. If there was a template, everyone would just do it. So few teams actually win a championship and it takes so much luck. I just don’t think people realize how lucky you have to be. The Mavs have been in the lottery I-don’t-know-how-many times since the start of the franchise in 1980, but we’ve never moved up. Not one time! Before I got here, the Mavs had the worst record in the NBA multiple times, but they’ve never in the history of the franchise gotten the No. 1 pick. And even if you get the No. 1 pick, you need to have it at the right time. Michael Olowokandi. Unless you’re an old-school basketball fan, you aren’t even going to remember him! There are so many forgotten No. 1 picks, so it takes a lot of luck. Being a good owner is important and you should be open-minded and take the time to learn the game and the business, but even then, luck is more important. But the other side of that is you can’t screw it up. Once you get lucky, can you make it work and not screw it up?
The Mavs’ continuity stands out to me – whether it’s Rick Carlisle being your head coach for 12 seasons or Dirk Nowitzki playing all 21 years of his NBA career in Dallas. You don’t see that kind of longevity very often in today’s NBA. How important is continuity to you as an owner?
MC: Corporate knowledge is important and the longer that a team is able to play together, the better they understand each other. Look at the Spurs; they’re a perfect example of continuity leading to success. We try to do the same thing, in a lot of respects. But you still need to have talent. The last three years, pre-Luka, we had some talent but not enough and we were playing for lottery balls more than we were playing for championships. As brutally painful as that is, that’s us trying to increase our odds to get lucky. In terms of continuity, [you want] guys who have played together for an extended period of time. When Jason Terry, Jason Kidd and Dirk Nowitzki walked out onto the court together, they knew how to play together and what the others were doing and how they each liked to play. That added a lot of value and that helped us win a championship. That continuity made a huge difference and hopefully we’ll be able to continue it with these guys we have now. I think we have a great nucleus with Luka and KP and Timmy Hardaway Jr. and Seth Curry and Maxi Kleber and Dodo (Dorian Finney-Smith). These are guys who all have longer contracts and hopefully will be together for a long, long time.
You obviously believed in Luka Doncic enough to trade Trae Young’s draft rights and a 2019 protected first-rounder to Atlanta to land Luka. But at what point did you realize that Luka could potentially be a once-in-a-generation talent?
MC: Probably 10 games into the regular season. We saw some amazing things when he was in Europe, obviously. You don’t just win MVPs and championships at 17 and 18 years old in the world’s second-best league and not be amazing. Then, we saw a lot of great things when he came in and worked out prior to the draft and played pick-up. I mean, he was just dominating. But you still don’t know; there are a lot of guys who come into the NBA with a lot of talent and you get excited about them, but you just don’t know until you really see them in NBA regular-season games. Then, there’s a whole different level in the playoffs that we haven’t seen with Luka yet. But when we saw him in those first 10 games, you could just see that he was special. I just didn’t think that it would come together this quickly for him. Winning Rookie of the Year and then taking another quantum leap forward this year? That’s a testament to not only Luka’s talent, but also his willingness to work hard.
Jerome Miron-USA TODAY Sports
When you hit on a fantastic player like Luka in the draft, how does that compare to investing in a company that takes off? Is it a similar rush?
MC: Yeah, it’s definitely a turn-on. (laughs) It’s like, “Oh my goodness!” The thing about owning a basketball team, I can’t be the one who makes the jump shots. In a regular business, I can go close the deal or write the software or configure the network. I can do a lot of things that have a direct impact on a business deal or on the company in general. In basketball, I can’t do that. It’s not like I’m going to walk onto the court and be like, “Alright guys, I got this. You guys move over.” There’s so much more stress involved in owning a team because you just don’t know how your draft picks or trades or free-agent signings are going to work out until it’s too late. It’s immediately out of your control. So when you get a player like Luka, there are just moments where you just shake your head and laugh. Michael Finley sits next to me at our home games and you’ll see me just smack him on the chest when Luka makes an incredible play. He’ll make an incredible pass or he’ll get to the basket and make a layup and you’re like, “How did he even get to the rim there?” In moments like that, or when we win a big game, I just shake my head and smile and think, “It’s about time we’re back to where we want to be.” Because as much fun as winning is, losing is even more stressful. It’s almost like you have to force yourself not to do things just to avoid losing. Going back to your question, what’s the rush like when you have a once-in-a-generation talent? It’s great. But it’s not a complete rush because you still haven’t gotten the ring yet.
Are there any takeaways or things that you learned from Dirk’s outstanding career that you can now use to help Luka reach his full potential and maximize his success?
MC: Absolutely. It’s not even me, it’s Dirk himself who communicates and is there with Luka. Dirk came down for Luka’s 21st birthday party in Miami and we had a lot of fun. I think the No. 1 thing is discipline. The discipline with diet, workouts, stretching, taking care of your body, working on your game, getting the reps in, getting shots up and watching film… Those are all things that are required to get to the next level and I saw that with Dirk. Dirk at 20 years old was one way and Dirk at 28 was completely different. I remember when I bought the team, I asked him what he ate before games and he said, “… Snickers bars.” By the time he was 8, 9, 10 years in, he was at the point where he wouldn’t have any sugar or fried foods or alcohol during the season – that level of discipline went to another level. It’s not that Luka is going to have to be the exact same way, but Luka has figured out what all great players figure out: That your success and results are directly related to the amount of time and effort you put into working on your game and the discipline you have to do the things that impact your body.
You’ve been outspoken about the NBA’s mid-season tournament idea. What are some of your concerns about the NBA’s proposal to add a mid-season tournament and change the length of the season to 78 games?
MC: Put aside the 78 games because that’s a different issue and it’s not a big deal one way or the other. You can make up four games in terms of a play-in or whatever. I’m not necessarily opposed to 78 games, I just have to see the specifics. But when you feel like you need to have an in-season tournament because you feel it’s needed to make the start of a season or the early-grind-it-out parts of a season interesting, you’re effectively saying that without this, the games aren’t interesting. To me, that’s never a good thing in business. You never, ever want to say, “Well, my product’s not as good this time of year as it is in that time of year, so we’re going to spice things up.” That’s not the case and that’s never good business in my mind.
You’ve talked about how NBA fans are younger, so they’re often cord-cutters who watch on social media and streaming. Do you feel like the mid-season tournament idea is an overreaction to the NBA’s ratings?
MC: I don’t even think it’s a reaction to the ratings, I just think they’re trying to create interest when there are 1,000 better ways to do that. I think we make the mistake sometimes of looking at football as an analogy. We think because there are only 16 games, each one of those games mean more and when each one of those games mean more, people may more attention. I don’t think that’s why people watch football at all. Because there are just some bad teams and, even then, if you look at some of the attendance issues for some of those bad teams, it’s not like people are showing up to games. It’s just that football is the easiest sport to watch on television and you couple that with fantasy sports, which gives people another reason to watch. In football, there is 12 minutes of action in a two-and-a-half hour game. So when you’re “watching” football, you don’t really have to watch football. You can be doing 20 things at the same time – looking at your fantasy team or checking your emails or talking on the phone. You can do whatever and not even miss a play. It’s just the nature of the game; it’s 12 minutes of attention.
With basketball, it’s 48 minutes when you’re watching a game live. That’s a challenge in a world where two seconds after Luka makes a step-back, it’s a highlight that’s on Instagram and YouTube. Our challenge is that kids are growing up and they’re so used to things being on Instagram and Tik Tok, to a certain extent, and Snapchat and YouTube. They aren’t trained to invest the time to watch an entire game, like the way we trained when growing up. It’s not necessarily as big of a problem in football because you kind of know when the play-clock is about to run out, so you can pay attention right before the play starts, then go back to doing 20 other things. Whereas, again, with basketball, sometimes it’s easier to just check out the highlights. That’s what my 10-year-old son does. I’ll have the game on and he’s barely paying attention and then two minutes later, that same play is a highlight on YouTube and he sees that. How that translates from a business perspective is that we at the NBA need to figure out a better way to monetize that attention. In the last 10 years, let’s say, it’s been all about live broadcasts on TV and, to a lesser extent, live-streaming games. Now, a lot – if not most – of the consumption of our games by people 34-and-under is online and on streaming, so we have to find a better way to monetize that.
I know you have a lot of thoughts about how the NBA hires and trains its refs. If you were put in charge of revamping the process of hiring and training refs, what are some things that you’d change?
MC: This is very, very simple: I’d bring in people who are professionals at hiring and training. That’s it. We have none. Just because you’re great at selling, that doesn’t make you a great sales manager. Just because you’re a great reporter, that doesn’t make you a great publisher or editor. You can pick any industry; if you’re great at doing the primary job in that industry, it doesn’t mean you’re going to be great at managing people within that industry. We never learned that lesson in the NBA and that has cost me a lot of money. But it’s an easy change and one of the first things to change.
Dirk said that when you first bought the Mavs, you challenged him to one-on-one. That seems like the ultimate perk that comes with owning a team. Dirk said you were a pretty good shooter and that you scored against him, but then he got fired up and dunked on you.
MC: I scored two times! I beat him 2-1 because after he dunked on me, I quit! (laughs)
(Laughs) I was going to ask if you remembered that game.
MC: Oh, hell yeah! There’s a video of it too, so I’ll have that forever.
Nice! How many players have you played one-on-one against over the years?
MC: I’ve played a lot. Right when I first started, I could move a lot better , so back then I played a lot of guys in one-on-one, HORSE and everything. Now, I’ll go out there and shoot with the guys a lot. But back then, I could hold my own a little bit. But they’re obviously the pros and I’m just the Joe trying to pretend I could play with them. But one thing I never did, I got asked a bunch to run in games during practice and stuff and I was always like, “No, I don’t ever want to cross the line. You guys are the professionals and I gotta respect your job and that you’re here to do a job, whereas I’m just yucking it up and trying to have fun. But, yeah, I’ve shot with some guys for money; I’ve taken some money and lost some money. It’s still fun.
One of the best parts of owning the Mavs is prior to a home game, I’ll get out on the court and shoot before the guys come out to warm up. I’ll just get shots up for an hour and that feeling… That’s where I get my ultimate peace. When the ball is going through the net (hopefully) and I’m raining down threes, the jumpers are falling, and it’s nothing but net, to me, that’s the most calming time ever. That kind of balances me out, getting shots up. And being able to do it on the court of the American Airlines Center is just the ultimate treat and pleasure.
I think I speak for everyone reading this: You’re living our dream!
Breaking down the NBA’s pension program and other benefits for retired players (such as health insurance and college-tuition reimbursement).
Thanks in large part to the actions of modern-era players like Chris Paul, LeBron James, Caron Butler and James Jones (among others), the NBA’s pension program has significantly improved in recent years. This greatly benefits the old-school players, who haven’t always seen eye-to-eye with the game’s modern stars.
NBA players have had a pension plan since 1965. Any player with at least three years of service in the NBA receives a monthly pension payment and access to other benefits (such as life-long healthcare coverage, a college-tuition reimbursement program and more). In order to accrue a year of service, a player must be under contract for at least one game during the NBA season (whether they’re active or inactive doesn’t matter).
According to the National Basketball Retired Players Association, after the changes in 2017, pensions increased by nearly 50 percent for players who start receiving payments at 50 years old – with corresponding increases for players who start receiving payment at later ages. Previously,the age-50 benefit paid out $559 per month per year of service. Now, it pays out more than $800 per month per year of service.
Also, the pre-1965 pension benefit amount (which is paid to players who were in the league before the pension plan was established) increased from $300 to $400 per month per year of service.
On average, former players are now earning an additional $300 per month, according to Scott Rochelle, the President and CEO of the NBRPA.
Players can start receiving payments as early as 45 years old, but the payments are reduced since they’ll be receiving the payments over a longer period of time. Players are encouraged to hold off on receiving payments until they’re age-62 (if possible) in order to receive the highest-possible payments.
A 62-year-old who played 10 or more years in the NBA will earn over $215,000 annually from his pension. For comparison, “a 10-year NFL veteran who retired prior to 1993 receives [a pension] of approximately $30,000-40,000 a year, pretax, at age 55,” according to the San Francisco Chronicle. (The minimum that a retired NBA player will receive at age-62 is $56,988 annually, and that’s just for someone with three years of service).
Making these improvements to the pension program required an additional $33 million annually in funding – a cost that the NBA and the current players agreed to split equally.
“The overall response that we received was great appreciation, relief and a sense of confidence that the retired players were being taken care of and still part of this family,” Rochelle said.
“It’s great to see that today’s players recognize how important it is to give back to these retired players in a major way,” said Caron Butler, who’s on the NBRPA’s Board of Directors. “I think it’s special. The retired players are happy because you sacrifice your body and give everything to this game, so to be appreciated on the back end speaks volumes. We’re so grateful to play for a league like the NBA that understands the importance of taking care of us and our families. Once you’re part of this fraternity, it’s a lifetime thing.”
Retired athletes Caron Butler, Robert Parish, Sheryl Swoopes and Doug Williams. (Nelson Chenault-USA TODAY Sports)
EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS
The college-tuition reimbursement program is another recent addition that’s helping many retired players. If a former player wants to go back to school and enroll in college courses, they can get their tuition reimbursed up to $33,000 annually.
“In addition to improving the pension program, they included an educational component with it as well,” Butler explained. “Now, retired players who didn’t finish their degrees can go back to the school and the guys who did get their degrees can further their education even more. They provided enough funding to make $120,000 available to every person who has ever played in the Association.”
As of September 30, 2019, there were 51 players who submitted pre-approval forms for tuition reimbursement and 28 had been approved. Since then, it’s estimated that more than 25 additional players have applied for the program.
“Adonal Foyle earned a Master’s in Business Administration through one of our programs with Purdue Sports Global,” Rochelle said. “Vladimir Stepania earned a Master’s degree through Anaheim University through one of our programs. Adrienne Goodson, a former WNBA player, also earned a Master’s degree through one of our programs. It’s great because we know that we’re making an impact. And it really does help when we talk about those success stories because it pushes other retired players to take advantage of our services as well.”
“For many years, we’ve seen that once a player is no longer playing at a university, they’re done with you,” Butler added. “The scholarship is no longer good and you can’t pivot back to someday finish your education. Now, with this program, you’re able to go back and further your education and you’re going to get the financial assistance that you need. Not everyone walks away from the game of basketball with millions of dollars, so to have this financial support speaks volumes.”
The NBA and NBRPA also have educational programs for active players and newly retired players that teach them how to be fiscally responsible. This – coupled with increased salaries and the fact that the NBA matches active players’ 401(k) contributions up to 140 percent – should lead to more players walking away from the game with significantly more money in savings.
“If you look at the sheer size of the contracts and compensation, plus the NBA matching 401(k) contributions up to 140 percent, they’re setting the players up to never ever be broke,” Rochelle said. “It helps when there’s a cultural push to make sure that players are doing the right things with the money that they’re earning. You see that now with players who are saving all of their game checks and just living off their endorsement money. Smart things like that are becoming more commonplace since there’s been a cultural shift toward fiscal responsibility. Nobody wants to show up in the headlines as a cautionary tale of a young athlete who burned all of their money. We’re seeing less of that, and I know we’re going to continue seeing that less and less because of the educational programs that we have now.”
Retired NBA players Willis Reed, Walt “Clyde” Frazier and Earl “The Pearl” Monroe (Photo by Astrid Stawiarz/Getty Images for Hospital for Special Surgery)
HEALTHCARE FOR LIFE
When 13-year NBA veteran Earl “The Pearl” Monroe started experiencing health issues in 1991 – just one year after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame – he was told by the NBA and NBPA that they couldn’t help him. In the coming years, he would need more than 47 surgeries, but he was no longer eligible to receive health insurance through the NBA once he retired.
Fortunately, Monroe did qualify for health insurance through the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists since he had appeared in a number of TV commercials during his playing days.
But after struggling with his health issues and watching other retired NBA players pass away at a young age (including Darryl Dawkins at 58 and Moses Malone at 60), Monroe became one of many former players speaking out about why retirees desperately needed healthcare.
Monroe told HoopsHype that he and other retired players started pushing for this in the 1990s, but it wasn’t until 2017 that this change was made.
Now, after three years of service in the NBA, players receive healthcare coverage for life. Players with 10-plus years of service in the NBA receive coverage for their spouse and children too.
“With the addition of healthcare for retired players, we were elevated to a very admirable position within the entire sports industry because this just simply doesn’t exist anywhere else or any other sport,” Rochelle said. “We were able to do it, which really helped our older players see that they’re not forgotten.”
Butler hopes that the NFL (and others) will follow in the NBA’s footsteps.
“I hope what we’re doing flows over to any union or other platform that needs this,” Butler said. “It’s important to take care of the folks who put so much into this and who moved the needle in the past. These platforms in the entertainment space have made so much money over the years, and I think it’s paramount that we take care of those people from the past and appreciate their impact and legacy. This goes for the NFL, hip hop and any other platform in the entertainment space. These people need to be taken care of and appreciated.”
Part of the reason why these changes finally happened is because some of the biggest names in the NBA got involved. Many retired players credit James, Paul, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry and Dwyane Wade for making sure this got done (with behind-the-scenes assistance from players like Butler and James Jones too). It took more than 25 years of lobbying, but funding health insurance for retired players was finally approved in 2017 with unanimous support from the NBPA’s player representatives.
“I think that it’s very important to have the right people in position and have some of the biggest names involved to highlight the issues that haven’t been addressed for years,” Butler said. “They’re paving the way for the next wave of players. A lot of kids are watching and they’re seeing the initiatives that these stars are part of and the moves that they make, and they want to be like them in a way. This fraternity is small and you’re empowered and influenced by the people who come before you. Those are some of the biggest names in the game; I think the next wave of players will model themselves after those guys because they’re providing the new blueprint.”
“Now that we have superstars leading the union, it changes the complexion of the conversations that are had between the league and the union, and it gives the players a real leg up when it comes to credibility and getting some of the things that they’re looking for,” Rochelle added. “As [NBRPA Chairman] Spencer Haywood has built relationships with Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and LeBron James, it’s really helped us.”
Quite frankly, there were selfish reasons for active players to improve these benefits and programs too. After all, every single one of them will be a retiree at some point in the near future. After all, Father Time is undefeated. They will benefit from these changes in time, which is why it’s somewhat shocking that it took over 25 years for these changes to be made.
“LeBron James is going to retire one day and he may possibly be the greatest all-around basketball player that we’ll see in this lifetime,” Butler said. “Everybody is going to retire at some point! Unless you want to sit at home and do nothing – and I don’t think anyone wants to be in that position – you have to start preparing for what’s next. The game of life is so long. If you make sure you’re prepared for life after basketball while you’re still playing, you’ll hit the ground running once you retire rather than tripping over your own feet.”
While in Chicago for NBA All-Star Weekend, HoopsHype sat down with 16-year NBA veteran Shawn Marion, who discussed his underrated career, the seven-seconds-or-less Phoenix Suns, his championship with the Dallas Mavericks, today’s NBA, life after basketball and more. You can listen to the full interview above or read the transcription below.
Looking back at your Phoenix Suns teams, you guys were ahead of your time – playing at a faster pace and shooting a lot of threes and things like that. When you look at the NBA today, would you agree that those teams were on the cutting edge and had a huge influence on the league?
Shawn Marion: Yeah, definitely. I think it’s part of the transition that happened throughout the years in the NBA and that’s the style of play in the game now. It’s just the evolution of the game. Guys are more skilled and talented now, and you’re able to do different things on the floor now. Unlike traditionally, there aren’t a lot of guys playing with their back-to-the-basket anymore.
If that 62-win Suns team from 2004-05 was playing in this era – with you, Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, etc. – how would that team fare in today’s NBA?
SM: Oh, very well. It’d be hard for teams to beat us, especially with bigs being perimeter players now. They would buy into what we’re doing and that would make things a lot easier.
Steve Nash recently said that while those Suns were on the cutting edge when it came to that style of play, he wishes you guys would’ve doubled down on it even further – shooting even more threes and playing more position-less basketball. Mike D’Antoni has said the same thing and we’re sort of seeing him do that now in Houston. Do you agree?
SM: I mean, I guess we could’ve. It would’ve been hard to play any faster since it was pretty much just one pass and then a three sometimes (laughs), which is what they’re doing now typically. But it’s just part of the game now. Now, if you have an open shot, you have to take it. With analytics and all of this other stuff, nobody is taking mid-range shots anymore typically. But some guys are really good mid-range shooters. I’m like, “A shot is a shot.” If you could put it in the hole, put it in the hole! But, whatever.
You were a freak athlete and an incredible two-way player who filled the stat sheet. You had a tremendous career and your peers hated playing against you because you made things very difficult for them and were able to adjust your game to match-up perfectly against whoever you were facing. I don’t think you get the credit and recognition that you deserve. After such an amazing career, do you feel underrated?
SM: I’ve heard it. It is what it is. Sometimes, I have to educate people on the game or educate people on what I did (laughs). It’s okay, it’s part of it, man. But I gave a lot to this game. I think I helped it. I was a big part of what the game is right now. I think anybody who really, truly knows basketball sees that. If they see it, they see it. If they don’t, they don’t. I can’t force somebody to open their eyes, you know? It is what it is. I’ve come to deal with it and I’m at peace. I’m good. I used to hate hearing certain things, but at the same time, dog, if you know anything about me, you know that I’m a competitor. I used to eat and sleep this game. And I still do, to a certain degree, but I’m nowhere near as competitive now (laughs). I’m not competing as much as I used to since I’m retired. I still play a little bit, here and there. But my body went through a lot. It’s truly been a blessing and an honor to be part of this great game.
Your game was so unique, but are there any players in the NBA today that remind you of yourself?
SM: I see signs in a couple of guys, but no, not really. The only person who I would say is Kawhi Leonard because he plays on both ends of the court with a tenacity. Even, at times, Paul George does too. But the way I rebounded and was able to do a few other things on the floor, especially from a defensive standpoint but offensively as well, they’re a little different from me when it comes to that standpoint. But for the most, the way I jumped and stuff? They don’t jump like me. I think we all jump differently. But they have some similarities, a little bit. But, for the most part, no, I don’t see no comparison with nobody in the league right now. Because the way I played and what I did on the floor, I don’t see nobody doing it. At my size? No.
When I interviewed you and your Dallas Mavericks teammates at the 2011 NBA Finals, it was clear that you guys were super confident that you’d beat the Miami Heat and you weren’t backing down at all. And you were really annoyed that people were viewing you guys as the underdog. Would you agree with that?
SM: Yeah! We was tired of hearing that! But it is what it is. That’s what happens a lot of the time. People always feel like they have to pick an underdog, to a certain degree. I guess you don’t have to; you could actually say, “We have these two great teams here and it’s even – winner-winner.” But people always want to say that somebody is better than somebody else or that they’ve got a better chance at winning. But a lot of times, they’re picking wrong. They’re picking based off of something that they don’t know sh** about. I’m being really candid. It’s amazing how so many people stipulate things off of a certain game or a certain skill set, but all that they’re basing it off of is what they’re seeing. It’s not the same as actually going out there and physically doing it and being part of it. It’s a different kind of mindset, a different kind of mentality, a different kind of approach. It’s a different kind of feeling. There are so many different things involved in this game. It’s easy for somebody to sit back and watch and say something about it and make their own stipulations about it. But when you’re in them trenches and actually going through that work… There’s nothing that you can do about it. You don’t know what it is. I don’t care how much you think you know basketball, you don’t know what it is. You don’t know what it feels like, unlike you’ve been in them trenches. But there’s levels to it. What part of them trenches are you in? Are you just spectating a little bit, dibbling and dabbling? Or are you in it, in it? You know what I’m saying? There’s so much about this game that’s speculated about and people say what they see, but you don’t really know what’s going on out there unless you’re really in it and you really dug down deep in it.
Photo by Ronald Martinez/Getty Images
I loved that team’s attitude. You did an amazing job shutting down LeBron James in that series, and it seemed like you got in his head too. What was the key to shutting LeBron down? And when you played with LeBron on the 2014-15 Cavaliers, did you guys ever talk to that series?
SM: No. At the time, we were focused on the current task at hand and that was to win a championship with the team that we were on. But I think it wasn’t just me, it was a collective team effort. We locked in and we knew exactly what our game-plan was and we executed it to the fullest, and that’s why we were able to prevail.
When I had DeShawn Stevenson on the podcast, he said that there’s no question that you guys would’ve repeated as champs if that Mavericks team had stayed together.
SM: Oh, I think it’s possible too. If we had a chance to run it back, I think so too. Yeah.
That happened to you a few times (in Phoenix and in Dallas), where a team was broken up and it was sort of out of the players’ control. How frustrating is that?
SM: It’s real, tough, I think, especially when you have that chemistry with guys and you really know them and do things with those guys. It’s really family-oriented. The NBA family is family, but your team is a much closer-knit family, to a certain degree. It’s tough sometimes because you develop relationships with guys and you want to see these guys and you feel like you can win with these guys, but then something happens and it’s broken up.
You were known as one of the top fantasy basketball players for many years; you would be a top pick in most fantasy leagues. Would fans ever come up to you and talk about having you on their fantasy team?
SM: Oh yeah, for about five or six years! For that six-year span, I was the No. 1 fantasy player (laughs), and I talked to so many people who played it.
You won a lot of people money!
SM: Yeah (laughs). I didn’t know too much about fantasy ball or anything like that. I never really got into it. I remember they used to have a thing on ESPN called “The Iron Unkind” and I just used to check that and make sure I wasn’t on that (laughs).
Speaking of money, when you see how much money players are making these days and look at how well you would fit in today’s NBA, do you ever feel like you were born too early?
SM: Yeah, everybody says that. (laughs) They say, “You were born a generation, a decade, too early!” Yeah, but it’s okay though. I had a big piece of that last decade and did pretty well!
You’ve defended so many superstars and had a lot of success against them. Who were the toughest guys for you to cover?
SM: Well, I guarded [Michael] Jordan, Kobe [Bryant] and LeBron. One of my favorite players was Jamal Mashburn. I just loved him because he was so versatile. He was a bigger small forward, but he was able to do a lot of different things on the floor and he was very skilled. But I guarded everybody, so I also guarded Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and all of the big guys too. I even had to guard Shaq a couple times! (laughs) I always accepted the challenge. You have to have that mindset when guarding those guys.
I feel like you should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. What would getting inducted mean to you?
SM: I mean, that’s part of your legacy. That’s what you [strive for]. We all set our own goals and achievements we want, and that’s a big one. I would love to be enshrined in it.
What was it like for you to transition into retirement? I know it’s easier for some players than others, but what how was your experience?
SM: It was actually pretty easy. I was staying busy and I was open-minded toward a lot of different things. I was kind of looking forward to it a little bit. I was already preparing myself beforehand. It was different for me than a lot of guys because I had just become a father right before I retired, so your priorities change when you have a little baby. My little son is amazing. That’s the reason I kind of walked away from the game a little bit early. I probably could’ve played another year or so. But sometimes you have lingering injuries when you’re older and all of this other stuff and I was like, “You know what, man? My son is little.” That first year, I was watching him grow up through my phone. I was watching him get bigger and do these different things, so I’m thinking, “I done won a championship and I done gave the game what I could give it; maybe it’s time for me to go ahead and just be a father.” I came to peace with it and decided it was time for me to ride off into the sunset. I didn’t want to watch my son grow up through a phone. Those first few years are some of the most exciting years! It’s way more fun now, of course, because I can do more things with him. But not experiencing those first things – his first steps, first time speaking and things like that – was hard. You’re not around as much as you want to be because the season is so long and that’s hard.
I think he’ll appreciate that when he’s older too since you made the choice to be there with him. What has fatherhood been like?
SM: It’s awesome, man! It’s something new every day. My son is a very smart guy and he has the same personality as me, and I love it. He’s a funny guy!
I read that you’re a majority shareholder in the New Zealand Breakers of the NBL. How is that going and how did that come together?
SM: (Points to his Breakers shirt) Myself, Matt Walsh and Barstool Sports and it’s a great unity that we have. We’re all on the same page and it’s been a lot of fun.
The Breakers had RJ Hampton this year. Do you think we’ll see more high school players go that same route and what do you think of RJ’s game?
SM: It’s possible, it’s possible. RJ is a talented young player and I wish him the best. I think he just got home. He had a little, minor injury toward the end of the season. Hopefully he has a bright future. I wish him the best of luck.
What other endeavors are you involved in? I know you’ve said that you aren’t interested in coaching right now because that would take you away from your son, but else do you have going on?
SM: I work with the Dallas Mavericks and I work with the NBA. I’m an ambassador for both and I do different things with them. It’s cool, it keeps me around the game and I’m able to be around the guys. It’s just enough.
How much basketball do you watch these days and who are some of your favorite young, up-and-coming players in the league?
SM: Of course I’m watching guys like Luka [Doncic], Trae [Young], Ja [Morant] and Zion [Williamson]. This year’s rookie class is pretty decent and last year’s guys too, of course. There are some talented young guys coming into the league and we’re going to be in some good hands in the future.
What do you make of the Houston Rockets playing without a center after their recent moves? If you played in today’s NBA, you might be a center! Like you said, you did guard Shaq a few times.
SM: Right now, it’s almost position-less basketball. It’s position-less. And you have some guys out there who are just spot-up shooters; they can’t do anything else but shoot. But that’s what it is. That’s how the game is transitioning now.
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The lack of cap space will likely result in a smaller percentage of players with player options opting out of their deals.
In the 2019 offseason, half the league had significant cap space, with most teams having maximum space available. The abundance of cap room convinced 11 of 18 players with player options to opt out and test the market. With more than $600 million available to be spent, no player who opted out of their deals got left behind. 2020 pales in comparison, projecting with just over $200 million in cap space to offer with a whopping 29 players with pending player options who will need to make decisions by June 30.
It is really hard to envision most of these players earning a pay raise or even equal to what they currently earn if they become free agents this summer. Most teams operating over the cap will be spending their money working around the margins, and cap space teams could do the same or take in bad contracts with draft picks attached. The lack of cap room will likely result in a smaller percentage of players with player options hitting the market.
GOOD CASES FOR OPTING OUT
Anthony Davis ($28.8 million) is going to decline his 2020-21 player option for sure. He formally declined the Lakers’ maximum extension offer, but that is because he would have left a lot of money on the table doing so. Barring an unexpected change in circumstances, expect Davis to re-sign with the Lakers for maximum dollars on either a one or two-year deal with a player option at the end. This process allows him to maximize his earnings over the next seven years.
Gordon Hayward ($34.19 million) has a very interesting case for opting out because he seems to have finally come back to form since breaking his leg in 2017. His efficiency and most of his numbers (except scoring) are higher than his 2016-17 numbers despite having a lower usage. He had a strong case for making the All-Star game this year if not for missing 13 games with a broken hand.
The Celtics rely on Hayward as part of their wing-centric lineup but they may have suitors to fend off. Charlotte, who previously signed him to an offer sheet in 2014, is projected with $26.7 million in cap space. Miami, who is projected with $26.5 million in cap space, also pursued Hayward in 2017, although indications are that they want to keep the keg dry for 2021. Other teams with at least that much cap space include Atlanta, Detroit, and New York. It seems unlikely that Hayward would want to leave Boston, and none of these teams other than New York can offer Hayward a true maximum contract (projected $40.3 million starting salary). If Hayward opts out, expect him to re-sign with the Celtics on a long-term deal. He is still getting minor injuries every now and then, so it would be wise to get the security given his history.
Jerami Grant ($9.4 million) is very likely, if not a lock, to secure a significant raise if he opts out. His skillset has a place on any modern NBA team and a player such as him could be one of the most sought after this offseason. Denver will not be able to replace him easily with the lack of players like him on the market, nor with just the non-taxpayer mid-level exception (NT-MLE). They’re already invested in him having traded a first-round pick for him and don’t exactly have an up and coming young power forward to take his place. Grant having full Bird rights with a team who can’t easily replace him and multiple suitors in free agency should lead to a lucrative long-term contract.
Evan Fournier ($17.2 million) could also see a nice raise or at least an incremental one. There should be suitors for him despite the dry market. His playmaking and scoring ability gives him a rotation spot on just about every team with or without cap space. He should be considered an extension candidate ahead of free agency as he currently can extend with the Magic for up to a maximum of $92.2 million between 2020-21 and 2023-24. If he opts out and is not offered long-term security, he could probably still earn more than $17.2 million on a one-year deal. Whether he opts out or not, he’s in an excellent position heading into the offseason because of his options.
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope ($8.5 million) and Avery Bradley ($5 million) are having resurgences under Lakers head coach Frank Vogel. Assuming the Lakers re-sign Davis, they will be over the cap and replacing them will be difficult if they leave. Caldwell-Pope finally has full Bird rights with the Lakers, so unless they can replace him with just the NT-MLE, he has a lot of leverage to secure a higher salary, although for now they’re likely only offering a one-year deal in preparation for 2021. Bradley could get a very small raise for up to his non-Bird amount ($5.7 million) or can get more via the NT-MLE. Whether their success is just a product of Vogel’s system or not, many over-the-cap teams with the NT-MLE could be preparing offers in hopes of stealing them from the Lakers.
COMPLICATED CASES FOR OPTING OUT, SHOULD CONSIDER AN EXTENSION IF ELIGIBLE
Mike Conley ($34.5 million) is in his age-32 season and may have started to show signs of a decline, although his February numbers are much closer to his career norms. Even if he plays at a level closer to that in Memphis, it makes very little sense for him to opt out because most of the 2020 cap space teams already have a starting point guard. Miami could make sense, but they’d likely only offer a one-year deal. The maximum amount he is eligible to extend for is $174.8 million over four years, but realistically he is looking at at least half that total. Utah is heavily invested in Conley after trading two first-round picks for him, but whether or not he fits in with them is still a work in progress. Conley will most likely opt in, but his long-term future in Utah is in question.
Andre Drummond ($28.6 million) is soon facing a very harsh and frustrating reality. In the past few offseasons, centers have been getting smaller and smaller guaranteed deals. In 2018, a considerably low cap-space offseason, we saw non-stretch centers Clint Capela and Jusuf Nurkic earn $16 million and $12 million annually, respectively. Charlotte and New York are the only two teams with significant cap space who make some sense for Drummond, but it’s hard to see either team shelling most of their cap space just to him. If Drummond were to opt-out and test the market, he might end up getting offered similar figures as Capela and Nurkic did. That is a steep paycut overnight, and because he was traded in February he is not extension eligible for the rest of the season. If he were to opt-out, it probably won’t be without assurances of a lucrative deal via a cap space team or a sign-and-trade. Otherwise, expect him to opt-in.
DeMar DeRozan’s ($27.7 million) next contract should be a lucrative one, but it is difficult envisioning a 2020 cap space team that makes sense for him. He could be a sign-and-trade candidate if he opts out and if there is a return that interests San Antonio. He has discussed an extension with the Spurs, but according to Sam Amick of The Athletic, they are far apart on an agreement. If he’s hoping for the maximum $149.1 million he is eligible for, he may not even get that from a team he’s potentially traded to. He has options, but unless he signs a lucrative extension, his best option is to opt-in and test the market in 2021.
INDIFFERENT BUT SHOULD AT LEAST RECOUP DECLINED MONEY
Enes Kanter, Robin Lopez, and JaMychal Green ($5 million) signed for the $4.8 million room mid-level exception (R-MLE). That became the price tag for other backup big men such as Richaun Holmes, Frank Kaminsky, and Mike Scott. JaVale McGee ($4.2 million) is also earning a similar amount. Most likely that $5 million range will remain the price for backup big men, so if any of these players opt-out, they should have the R-MLE amount to fall back on.
Austin Rivers ($2.4 million), Willie Cauley-Stein ($2.3 million), Wesley Matthews ($2.7 million), Mike Muscala ($2.3 million), and James Ennis ($2.1 million) all signed for the veteran minimum or slightly above it. It is tough to gauge whether they’ve done enough this season to garner a raise, but at the very least they should have a minimum offer available next season. If any of these players opt out, it could be for a change of scenery.
BAD CASE FOR OPTING OUT
Otto Porter ($28.5 million) had an unbelievable stretch during the 2018-19 season that made opting out in 2020 a reasonable possibility. However, injuries have severely limited him over the past two years, making him very unlikely to hit free agency. Rodney Hood ($6 million) was making a strong case too, but his Achilles injury will certainly have him opting in.
Tim Hardaway Jr. ($19 million) and Kelly Olynyk ($13.2 million) have been productive role players and are likely looking at paycuts down the line. Meanwhile, Jabari Parker ($6.5 million) and Stanley Johnson ($3.8 million), have not been as productive and are probably leaving money on the table if they opt out. All these players might as well opt in and try to boost their stock for 2021.
Nicolas Batum ($27.1 million), James Johnson ($16.1 million), and Tony Snell ($12.2 million), the last of the remaining ‘sour sixteens’ (or ‘seventeens’ in Snell’s case), can thank the cap spike of 2016 for their fortune. No cap smoothing led to a surplus in cap space, and one of the unintended consequences was allocating large portions of it to non-qualified players. Expect these players to opt in.
Despite only earning minimum salaries, there is no guarantee that Rajon Rondo ($2.6 million) and Mario Hezonja ($2 million) would be signed next season. They should only opt out if they have assurances of a minimum deal from at least one team.
Antoine Walker talks about being voted to Chicago’s all-time starting five, how he’d fare in today’s NBA, his off-court endeavors and more.
Leading up to NBA All-Star Weekend in Chicago, fans had an opportunity to vote on an all-time starting five of Chicago-born players. Derrick Rose, Isiah Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Anthony Davis and Antoine Walker were crowned the winners, and the results were announced at Posterized: The Chicago Experience (powered by Jim Beam) at the Chicago Sports Museum.
HoopsHype had a chance to chat with Walker shortly after he received this honor. The three-time All-Star averaged 17.5 points, 7.7 rebounds, 3.5 assists and 1.2 steals over the course of his 12-year NBA career. We talked to Walker about Chicago’s all-time starting five, his impressive NBA career, life after basketball, his off-court endeavors, today’s NBA and more.
You were named to Chicago’s all-time starting five and this was announced at Posterized: The Chicago Experience (powered by Jim Beam). What does that honor mean to you?
Antoine Walker: I was excited and it means a lot because we have so much talent coming out of Chicago, including some guys that people don’t even know about. We’ve had so many guys who have made it to the pros and so many guys who have had great careers. To be recognized by people in Chicago and all around the world, it means the world to me. There was some stiff competition too. Mark Aguirre didn’t make the Top 5, but he should be in the Hall of Fame and he should be in the city’s all-time Top 5 because he was one of the greatest players to ever play, but he never gets his just due. To be able to get some just due makes me feel really, really good.
Chicago has produced so many talented players over the years. Why do you think we’ve seen so many great players come from Chicago and is there something that this city’s players have in common?
AW: I think we’ve seen so many great players come from Chicago because of the foundation that was laid down a long time ago when you think about guys like Mark Aguirre, Isiah Thomas, Maurice Cheeks and Tim Hardaway. Honestly, I also believe it’s because of the media. There’s a lot of coverage of Chicago sports and it starts at such an early age. I remember being in eighth grade and being ranked the No. 1 eighth-grader in the state. I think because we put such an emphasis on the sport of basketball, that makes a lot of kids want to play. We’ve been very fortunate to have a lot of pros come out of this city. Our list of pros is just as strong as any other city in the world. This is a sports town and people really get excited about basketball, and they get behind these players and teams. I think that’s why you see [some] people consider it to be the Mecca.
You were ahead of your time with your three-point shooting. People used to criticize your shot selection because you attempted a lot of threes, but with how the game has evolved, clearly you were onto something. Do you feel vindicated?
AW: Oh, without question! I probably would’ve made $300 million in today’s NBA, if I could’ve played in this day and age! But I think it shows the skill level of big men. We’re seeing that big guys can do some of the things that small guys can do. It was a tough time for me when I was doing it; I used to get ripped for shooting so many threes. But I really give Jim O’Brien a lot of credit. When he took over for Rick Pitino, he’s the one who instilled that confidence in me as a shooter. He’d say, “Anytime you get an opportunity to shoot, shoot it!” Once he put that confidence in me, I didn’t have a problem shooting. I wasn’t bashful. (laughs) I went out there and played my game. Now, playing that way is looked at as exciting. And it is fun to watch! Watching some of these big men take the ball full-court, coast to coast, and then seeing some of these centers be able to step out and shoot threes – guys like Marc Gasol and Anthony Davis – it makes for a fun style of basketball.
Are there any current players who remind you of yourself?
AW: Hmm, I don’t know. I like Draymond Green and his all-around game. He’s a better defender, but as far as his skill set – pushing the basketball, getting other guys shots and things like that… I probably shot the three better than him, but I really like the way he plays. I like Giannis Antetokoumpo’s versatility and long arms and ability to make plays for other people. I like all forwards who get five or six assists per game, the guys who are really good passers. Those are the guys who I really enjoy watching – not necessarily that our games are similar, but more so that our mindset and the way we approach the game are similar. I really enjoy watching those guys play.
What was it like making the transition to broadcasting and how are you enjoying that?
AW: The transition has been great because it gave me a chance to be connected to the game again. I’ve really enjoyed it. I’m a student of the game and I love the NBA game as well as the college game. I watch basketball every single day. It’s part of my life, so to be able to now talk about it every day is really special to me. A lot of guys don’t get an opportunity to continue to do what we love and still be a part of this game at the level that I’m at, so I don’t take it for granted. I really love the opportunity to talk about the game that I love.
Photo by Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
If you could go back and give 20-year-old Antoine advice, what would it be?
AW: It would probably be teaching him about generational wealth. I never thought about generational wealth when I was playing and making a lot of money. I would make sure that I have enough money not only for myself but for my kids and their kids. I wish somebody would’ve taught me about generational wealth and how I wouldn’t be able to play this game forever and that, after I retire, I’d still have the rest of my life to live. I wish somebody would’ve told me that at age 20.
That’s what I would tell my 20-year-old self, and that’s what I make sure to tell all of these young guys who are playing in the league now. I just try to turn a negative into a positive and teach these young guys. When you’re 19 or 20 years old, you just see that you’re making a lot of money right now, but one day that comes to an end. Make sure you’ve put aside enough money for yourself and your kids and their kids. Make sure you have generational wealth.
In the past, we’ve discussed your bankruptcy and work as a financial adviser to athletes. I know you work with Edyoucore and Greg Oden recently became an athlete advisor with them as well. Greg told me that while he enjoys it, he hopes that these athletes listen and actually apply these lessons. When you’ve talked to players, how do they typically respond and does it seem like your advice sinks in?
AW: I think it really is impacting them. I think it starts a conversation and I think it puts a lot of things on their mind since they’re dealing with their own personal situations. They may not publicly come out and say that they’re taking that advice, but I know that a lot of them are taking it wholeheartedly and applying it to their life. I think you’re going to see that the percentage of athletes and entertainers who have financial problems after their career ends is going to change. And I think it’s because of these types of programs, which are very impactful. You’d be surprised how many guys come up to me afterward to thank me for coming and thank me for sharing my story and ask for more information. They talk about how they’re going to take that information and use it in their own life and make the right decisions. I think this is going to be a tremendous help, and I think it’s off to a great start.
In addition to the financial advising and broadcasting, do you have any other off-court endeavors you’re working on?
AW: I’m coming out with a book, hopefully here in the next two months. It’s going to be a financial-literacy learning tool for everybody – not just athletes. I want to share my story and the things that I’ve learned. And I just want to continue to grow. I’m very comfortable in the space that I’m in right now. I want to continue to grow my TV career to where I can continue to be a TV analyst for 10-15 more years. I want to continue to grow in that space.
But I also have aspirations of one day working for an NBA team, maybe in a front office. I’d like to try to build a championship team. I believe that I have a very good basketball IQ and I think I know the game very well, so I think I could be a positive addition to any front office. That’s on my bucket list – hopefully one day I can work for a team and help them win a championship.
Who was the toughest defender you ever faced? Were there certain players you dreaded facing because they’d lock you down?
AW: I would say it was the guys with length, like Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Rasheed Wallace. Those kind of guys were very tough for me to go up against. Because of their length, I wasn’t really able to post them up the way I would like to, so I would always have to take them off the dribble or step back and shoot the three.
But the guy who was probably the toughest to score against was probably Dennis Rodman. That goes back to my first couple of years in the league. I played against Dennis in ‘96, ‘97 and ‘98 during their championship runs and he was tough as nails and so hard to score against. Those guys were really the ones who gave me trouble. Length was something that always bothered me.
Chicago’s all-time starting five was announced at Posterized: The Chicago Experience, which was a fun event that showcased Chicago’s food, music and art. What did you think of the party?
AW: I loved it, man. I thought it was a great event. When you think about how the All-Star Game hadn’t been in Chicago in 32 years, I thought they did a great job highlighting our city – and not just the basketball. The concept behind the Posterized event was showing people Chicago and what it’s like; it wasn’t just about our basketball. Obviously, it was built around basketball and All-Star Weekend, but it highlighted Garrett’s Popcorn, Chicago dogs, step dancing and teaching people how we dance, our art, the celebrities who came out were from Chicago and have been influential in Chicago and things like that. I thought it was great and it showed Chicago in a different light. I really enjoyed the event, and I loved being a part of it. And it was extra exciting that I got some love while I was there, finishing in the all-time Top 5! It was great all around.
At 43 and still in the NBA, Vince Carter has been around long enough to outlast players far younger than him. Actually, there are 43 All-Stars (not counting the late Kobe Bryant) who were born after Carter and are already retired from basketball. …
At 43 and still in the NBA, Vince Carter has been around long enough to outlast players far younger than him. Actually, there are 43 All-Stars (not counting the late Kobe Bryant) who were born after Carter and are already retired from basketball.
