TCI recently spoke with Ethan Joyce to get some insight on Wake Forest ahead of Clemson’s game against the Demon Deacons. Joyce covers Wake Forest football for the Winston-Salem Journal.
Joyce hit on a number of topics during the following question-and-answer session, including the keys to Wake’s offensive prowess, how Clemson might be able to slow the Demon Deacons down, a defense that’s nursing some key injuries and more heading into Saturday’s game at Memorial Stadium.
Note: This interview was edited and condensed for clarity
Has the fact Clemson has won 12 straight in this series been a talking point at all for Wake’s coaches and players this week?
Not necessarily. I think there is an excitement to play in what’s a phenomenal home atmosphere (for Clemson). I think that’s a big thing for a lot of teams, and a couple of players earlier this week had just kind of mentioned that you want to go and play in games like that, especially when they’re so important like this one is to Wake. But as far as their streak in the series, not so much.
Wake’s offense (second in the FBS in scoring) has been a juggernaut this season with that slow mesh point that’s seemingly given everyone fits. What’s the point of the slow mesh point, and why has it been so effective for them?
The way I’ve described it to people is I think that slow mesh is very reactive. It’s predicated on making sure you have a guy like (quarterback) Sam Hartman who sees the best decision really quickly. There are times where he’s standing in the pocket, but I think ideally you kind of get that look and you react really fast. So maybe he lets the ball go (to the running back) and it becomes a run play or maybe he kind of sees that first opening.
They’ve really been good at creating explosive plays this year, specifically through the air. I was telling somebody the other day that I feel like I’ve seen more 50-yard passes this season than maybe I have throughout my career. It’s just been kind of wild. They’ve got the explosiveness for it, but they’ve got a lot of guys that have played a lot of snaps in this offense. And I think when you’re talking about something that’s unique, that’s really beneficial. You have Sam Hartman, who was starting as a freshman back in ‘18, who’s still just doing so much right now, and all these receivers have been playing a ton. So I think it just kind of adds up to make it maybe that next step forward of an offense.
Speaking of explosives through the air, nobody in college football has more pass plays of at least 30 yards than Wake. What’s been the key to that for them?
I think it’s having guys that are really skilled at wide receiver. Jaquarii Roberson is their slot guy, and he was an all-ACC preseason pick. He’s been every been that part. I think his first moves are always really good. He played some in the N.C. State game (last week) and ended up getting pulled out. And he’s kind of a question mark. Wake doesn’t really talk injuries very much, so he’s kind of a mystery right now. But I think the explosiveness for everything is just those guys being able to get separated quickly. I think there are a few teams that can figure out how to defend them, but a lot of times, I think teams prep for it as best as they can and it’s still such a situation where you’re seeing something almost completely different than you normally do. It’s a very frustrating process to go through for 60 minutes.
With so much of the focus understandably on what Wake does in the passing game, a running game averaging 180 yards gets lost in the shuffle. How are they getting it done on the ground?
They’ve got three guys that they really lean on running the ball. Christian Beal-Smith is the guy that is their lead back and typical starter. He missed the N.C. State game with an ankle injury, and there’s not really a timeline for him. Him and two other guys, (Michigan transfer) Christian Turner and Justice Ellison, I think they do a lot of the same things really well. They have their different strengths, which you see. But it’s not like you’re seeing a bruiser and a speedster.
You’re not seeing a lot of difference from those guys, and I think that’s maybe why they handle the load of rushes and touches that they get so well. They’re very locked in with each other. You hear a lot of coaches say they trust this many running backs or they see a committee, but this is legitimately the most three-pronged committee running back group that I’ve ever seen. And they just flow in and out really well. Their rhythm isn’t thrown off very much. I think that goes a long way.
So if you’re Clemson, how would you try to go about defending this Wake offense?
I think the thing is if you can take away the threat of that run and be really physical, I think that makes a big difference. One thing about Wake is you’re never going to to see a ton of running back receptions. They’re either running the ball or they’re going to be blocking most of the time. So I think with some physicality that a Clemson defense that I know has had some injuries but still has a load of guys that’s really strong and can really get some push, I think that could be problematic. You could see that a little bit, too, with N.C. State on defense. They would bring some blitzes that really kind of overwhelmed the system.
I think you almost have to be OK with being aggressive and maybe being caught with a couple of those from time to time because you are making somebody so uncomfortable. Sam had a decent game against N.C. State. But there were a lot of uncomfortable moments in that game for him and the offense, and I think it was because N.C. State had that ability to push real hard and real fast.
Most of Wake’s problems lie on the other side of the ball with a defense yielding nearly 33 points a game. What’s the biggest issue there?
When it comes down to it, I think sometimes the tackling has been the bigger issues where you’ve kind of seen them at their worst in games. The Army game, for example, when they’re dealing with some injuries. The (North) Carolina game when (UNC quarterback) Sam Howell is really able to get things started because he runs a little bit. Sam Howell is a strong quarterback so he’s a little tough to bring down, but I know there were some moments on the tape when they looked back and were like, “If you wrap this guy up, this isn’t a 15- or 20-yard gain. This is a 5-yard gain.” I really think it comes down to that.
When they’re able to tackle and pursue, they’re solid. And the N.C. State game, you look at it and you see 42 points, but seven of those were from a touchdown on kickoff return to start the second half. And another touchdown really came from another really good kickoff return. So the special teams really kind of played into that a lot more than the defense did. That was a pretty solid day for them. If they’re making tackles, they’re solid. If they’re attacked by a run game and they’re at the point where they’re pursuing a lot — and they’re on the field a lot anyway because of the style of offense they play — that’s when you start seeing some trouble.
With D.J. Uiagalelei nursing that sprained right knee, would you expect Wake to try to defend Clemson any differently? Maybe stack the box and force the Tigers to try to beat them through the air?
That’s interesting because I could see that plan, but also Wake is dealing with a couple of secondary injuries right now. Two guys that have been big-time contributors for them, Caelen Carson and Gavin Holmes, who didn’t play against (N.C.) State. And that was big question for me when you were going against one of the better quarterbacks in the league in Devin Leary.
That’s going to be an interesting problem because I don’t know how much you can stack (the box) when you’re working with some younger guys (in the secondary). They’re getting reps, and I think there’s some talent there. But they’ve been thrown into it really quickly. I think they’ve got to figure out that balance of how much can we try to pressure (Uiagalelei) to throw the ball, but how many guys do we need to leave back just because we’re not at full strength with our top guys?
One thing Wake’s defense has been good at is creating turnovers. The Demon Deacons have forced 17 so far. How have they done it?
Honestly, I think a lot of that comes from a guy like Traveon Redd, who’s a safety for Wake. He’s generated a lot of stuff for them (three interceptions and three fumble recoveries). It’s like you have your explosive plays on offense, and then on defense you have your third-down rates. You have your turnovers, and I think Wake deals with the fact they may be on the field a lot more and they may give up some more yardage by the fact they’re able to come up with those big moments. It’s really uncanny sometimes the way they do it, and Traveon is the perfect example of that. He’s kind of this undersized guy that I don’t know if he had a lot of options coming out of high school, but he is a football player. And that’s a guy you want on your team 10 out of 10 times. So I think it’s guys like that that just have the motor to get after the ball.
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