Floyd Mayweather’s resume at 147 pounds doesn’t stack up against that of Sugar Ray Leonard. There certainly isn’t any shame in that.
Floyd Mayweather recently expressed his frustration on a FightHype.com video after someone suggested that Sugar Ray Leonard was a better welterweight than he was.
One of the arguments Mayweather used in pleading his case: “How can you have a guy ranked No. 1 when his first loss was to a lightweight, Roberto Duran?”
Think about that for a second. Mayweather dismissed Duran as “a lightweight.”
Well, first of all, Duran arguably was the greatest lightweight who ever lived. Two, he wasn’t a lightweight when he fought Leonard. That was his ninth fight at welterweight or heavier. And, three, it was Roberto-Freakin-Duran.
I’m shaking my head.
In my opinion, Mayweather was not as good a 147-pounder as Leonard. At the very least, he didn’t prove it if he was.
Mayweather was 12-0 (3 KOs) as a welterweight. His best victories: Manny Pacquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez and Shane Mosley.
Leonard was 26-1 (18 KOs) as a 147-pounder. His best victories: Thomas Hearns, Duran (in the “no mas” rematch) and Wilfredo Benitez.
All six of those opponents are or will be in the International Boxing Hall of Fame. But there’s a difference. Let’s take a look at each opponent.
Pacquiao (UD 12) – The 2015 victory over the Filipino star carries weight – particularly in light of his recent victory over Keith Thurman – but the fact is Pacquiao, 36, was past his prime when Mayweather outpointed him. That fight should’ve happened five years earlier.
Plus, if you believe Pacquiao, he fought with an injured shoulder. And, if Mayweather is going to call Duran a lightweight, I’ll call Pacquiao a natural 140-pounder. He’s still a small welterweight.
Marquez (UD 12) – Mayweather criticizes those who suggest that Marquez was too small for him given the fact he knocked out Pacquiao at welterweight three years later.
Now I’m scratching my head.
The fact is that Marquez never fought above 135 pounds and was a 126-pounder only six fights earlier when he met Mayweather. Everyone knew at the time that fighting even at a catch weight of 144 was asking too much of the 36-year-old Mexican.
Mosley (UD 12) – Mayweather points out that Mosley was coming off a sensational knockout victory over Antonio Margarito. True. But what Mayweather fails to mention is that Mosley was 38 and had been out of the ring for 16 months when they met.
Also, a quick glance at Mosley’s record indicates he was in decline. He never won another important fight and, including the Mayeather loss, he was 3-5-1 to finish his career.
Now a look at Leonard’s opponents.
Hearns (TKO 14) – The lean, but powerful “Hit Man” was young, not quite 23, but had built a reputation as an unusually dangerous boxer-puncher. He was 32-0, with 30 knockouts, when he met Leonard for the first time. This version of Hearns was an absolute monster.
Duran (TKO 8) – Say what you want about Duran’s natural size. He was one of the best ever to lace up gloves and was only 29 for the rematch with Leonard, who, instead of brawling with Duran as he had in the first fight, boxed circles around him until he quit.
Benitez (TKO 15) – The superb boxer from Puerto Rico made history when he upset the great Antonio Cervantes to win a 140-pound title at 17 years old. He was only 21 and at his peak when Leonard outboxed and then stopped him.
And please note: Leonard not only beat the three legends mentioned above in only a 22-month period, he stopped all three!
I’m not sure if a prime Mayweather would’ve beaten any of the three. Hearns’ style was all wrong for Mayweather. The only way to beat Hearns was to hurt him and that wasn’t Mayweather’s strength. Jose Luis Castillo and Marcos Maidana gave Mayweather problems with aggression. Can you image what Duran would’ve thrown at him? And Benitez was good enough to give anyone in history problems.
This column isn’t meant to demean Mayweather’s accomplishments. Honestly. I believe strongly that he was the best fighter of his era, which means he’s one of the best fighters of all time.
His resume at 147 pounds simply doesn’t stack up against that of Sugar-Freakin-Ray Leonard. There certainly isn’t any shame in that.
ESPN2 is showcasing five of the most controversial decisions of the past 30-plus years beginning at 7 p.m. tomorrow (Wednesday).
You be the judge.
ESPN2 is showcasing five of the most controversial decisions of the past 30-plus years beginning at 7 p.m. tomorrow (Wednesday). The classic fights can also be seen on ESPN+.
The lineup kicks off with Oscar De La Hoya vs. Felix Trinidad from 1999. De La Hoya, the biggest star in the sport at that time, was leading on the cards when he inexplicably ran the last three-plus rounds, which cost him the decision.
At 8 p.m. is De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley II from 2000. Mosley won their first meeting by a split decision. And the second give-and-take fight also was close. De La Hoya outlanded Mosley 221-127, according to CompuBox, but lost a unanimous decision.
At 9 p.m. is Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez III from 2011. Many believe Marquez deserved to win a decision in this fight but Pacquiao emerged with the majority-decision nod.
At 10 p.m. is Marvin Hagler vs. Sugar Ray Leonad from 1987. Leonard came back from almost three years away from the sport to stun Hagler and the boxing world by winning a split decision. Did he deserve it?
And at 11 is Floyd Mayweather vs Jose Luis Castillo I. This might’ve been the most difficult fight of Mayweather’s career, as Castillo’s mauling tactics made the pound-for-pound king’s life miserable. Mayweather emerged with a unanimous decision but not everyone was convinced.
Fans have had to subside on classic fights to get their boxing fixes. And some good ones are coming up.
Fans have had to subside on classic fights to get their boxing fixes. And some good ones are coming up.
Say what you want about the way Floyd Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao played out in 2015; it was huge. That fight and other memorable showdowns will be showcased on ESPN and Showtime this weekend.
ESPN has dedicated four hours to boxing following the 2020 NFL Draft on Saturday. The program is scheduled to begin at 7 p.m. ET.
Here is the ESPN lineup: 7 p.m., Mayweather vs. Zab Judah, in which Mayweather won his first welterweight title and a brawl between corners broke out; 8 p.m., Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez II, in which Pacquiao became the first Asian fighter to win titles in four divisions; 9 p.m., Pacquiao vs. Cotto, in which the Filipino star won a title in a seventh weight class; and 10 p.m., Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, the richest fight in history.
Most of ESPN’s library of fights are also available on ESPN+.
Showtime Boxing Classics will present two memorable fights featuring all-action brawler John Molina at 10 p.m. ET / PT on Friday.
The first bout is Molina’s 2013 unforgettable upset of then-unbeaten Mickey Bey, which took place in Las Vegas. Molina was down on all three cards and time was running out when he scored a miraculous last-minute knockout.
The victory gave Molina’s career a significant boost.
“I still have nightmares about those last 58 seconds and what would have happened to my career had the time ran out,” Molina said. “I would have never signed with Al Haymon without those final 58 seconds.”
The second fight is Molina’s 2014 war with Lucas Matthysse in Los Angeles, in which both fighters went down twice before the Argentine won by 11th round knockout.
“I still have longtime members of the boxing press to this day come up and tell me that in 30 years of covering boxing, the Matthysse fight was the only fight they’ve ever had to turn away from and not watch because it was such a brutal war,” Molina said. “I didn’t realize how special it was till I went back and watched it.”
The programming can be viewed on Showtime, Showtime Anytime and the Showtime stand-alone streaming service.
Boxing Junkie staffers are trying to have some fun while the sport is on hiatus because of the coronavirus pandemic. One of the questions fans love to ask even amid a busy schedule is, “Who would win if …?” With that in mind, we decided to create …
Boxing Junkie staffers are trying to have some fun while the sport is on hiatus because of the coronavirus pandemic.
One of the questions fans love to ask even amid a busy schedule is, “Who would win if …?” With that in mind, we decided to create our own “Who Wins?” feature, in which we pit a single fighter against each of five potential opponents and indicate who we believe would win the fights.
In this installment of Who Wins?, our staffers’ give their takes on how Pacquiao would do against Errol Spence Jr., Shawn Porter, Terence Crawford, Danny Garcia and Mikey Garcia. We then tally Pacquiao’s record in those fights and present our standings.
Pacquiao proved at 40 that he remained an elite fighter by outpointing Keith Thurman in July. And even after celebrating another birthday in December, more compelling challenges await the Filipino icon when the pandemic subsides.
We want to acknowledge that the choice of possible opponents is subjective. We’re looking for the best possible but also realistic foes for our featured boxers. One caveat: We won’t consider promotional and managerial rivalries that often stand in the way of the best matchups. And we’re operating under the assumption that none of our featured boxers will fight with ring rust as result of their forced coronavirus-related layoff.
The plan is to work our way down our pound-for-pound list each day. That means our featured fighter tomorrow will be No. 14 Srisaket Sor Rungvisai.
So here goes: Pacquiao vs. his five potential opponents.
***
PACQUIAO (62-7-2, 39 KOs) VS. SPENCE (26-0, 21 KOs)
Rosenthal: This is not a fight Pacquiao should take, assuming Spence is at 100 percent. It’s one thing to beat a rusty Keith Thurman who is coming back from injuries; it’s another to challenge a complete fighter like Spence. “The Truth” is simply too quick, too big, just too good for a 40-something version of Pacquiao, who can fight only in spurts. Spence will pick Pacquiao apart, break him down and stop him in the late rounds.
Frauenheim: We’re still waiting to see Spence post-accident. If he’s the same fighter, he blows away Pacquiao. He’s big enough to be a middleweight. Pacquiao should be a junior welterweight. Spence is also 11-years younger than the Filipino Senator. Spence, late round stoppage.
Nam: Pacquiao’s speed and aggression will win him the early rounds, but this is a 12-round fight. Pacquiao tends to fade and take rounds off in the second half of his most recent fights (see the Jeff Horn and Keith Thurman bouts). That’s when Spence will start to take over, clobbering Pacquiao with hard body shots. Youth and size will prevail. Spence by unanimous decision.
***
PACQUIAO VS. PORTER (30-3-1, 17 KOs)
Rosenthal: Terrible matchup for Pacquiao. This version of him — 41, small welterweight — has neither the energy nor the physical strength to cope with Porter’s relentless pressure over 12 rounds. Pacquiao, still skillful, will have his moments early in the fight but Porter will wear him down as the rounds go by. Porter by late KO.
Frauenheim: Porter is two inches taller and nine years younger. Those are advantages, especially for a fighter who knows how to maximize them. Porter does. But he also has a problem. He’s at his best on the inside. Pacquiao catches him when he moves in. Pacquaio beat Keith Thurman. Porter lost to him. Pacquiao, split decision.
Nam: At this stage in his career, the last thing Pacquiao wants is to go through the wringer that is Porter. Anyone remember Jeff Horn? The Aussie perhaps got lucky on the scorecards, but he bullied Pacquiao at times in their fight. Porter will bring the same physical intensity – from headbutts to half-nelsons – but at a higher level of talent and athleticism. Porter by bloody decision.
***
PACQUIAO VS. CRAWFORD (36-0, 27 KOs)
Rosenthal: Fun matchup, as most of Pacquiao’s are. Pacman proved against Keith Thurman that he shouldn’t be underestimated, even in his 40s. That said, Crawford is a notch above Thurman, is a more natural 147-pounder than the smallish Pacquiao and presumably wouldn’t be coming off a prolonged layoff, as Thurman was when he faced Pacquiao. Crawford is too quick, too good, too young for this version of Pacquiao. Crawford by clear decision.
Frauenheim: There’s a reason Freddie Roach has suggested there are better fights for Pacquiao. This is one he can’t win. Crawford is in his prime. Pacquiao is past his. Pacquiao showed surprising quickness against Thurman. But Thurman was limited by a hand injury. A two-fisted attack from the switch-hitting Crawford would be too much. Crawford, late-round TKO.
Nam: As inspiring as Pacquiao’s recent run has been, throttling the likes of Adrien Broner and Keith Thurman, Crawford would mark an end to the senator’s joyride. Crawford’s counterpunching ability will disrupt Pacquiao’s usual in-and-out motion. Recall that Pacquiao has historically had trouble against particularly good counterpunchers. Crawford wins on points.
***
PACQUIAO VS. D. GARCIA (36-2, 21 KOs)
Rosenthal: Pacquiao has had problems with particularly effective counterpunchers in the past. Think Juan Manuel Marquez. Garcia isn’t quite at Marquez’s level but he’s made his living as a top-tier fighter by responding to his opponents’ offensive moves, particularly with his left hook. This one will go down to the wire, with Garcia winning seven rounds to five.
Frauenheim: Garcia is three inches taller and about nine years younger. He’s a good counter-puncher. His left is lethal. But he doesn’t have as varied a skill set as Porter or Thurman. He lost to both. If the 41-year-old Pacquiao’s foot speed is still there, he’ll score early and often while also eluding Garcia’s counters. Pacquiao, unanimous decision.
Nam: This is in some sense a favorable style matchup for Garcia. Pacquiao will be the aggressor, which plays right into Garcia’s counter punches. But one could also see Garcia being overwhelmed by the variety and pace of Pacquiao’s offense. Garcia isn’t a defensive wizard by any means, after all. Pacquiao wins a close decision after a highly competitive 12 rounds.
***
PACQUIAO VS. M. GARCIA (40-1, 30 KOs)
Rosenthal: Good matchup. The Pacquiao of five, six years ago probably would’ve controlled this fight with his speed and activity. The 41-year-old version of Pacquiao would have his hands full. The Filipino icon, who now fights only in spurts, will have his moments but Garcia will have more of them. His tight technique, precising punching and measured pressure would earn him the victory by a clear decision.
Frauenheim: A fight that should have happened years ago. Yet, it’s still interesting. Both looked good in their last bouts – Garcia in a unanimous victory over Jessie Vargas and Pacquiao in a split decision over Thurman. Garcia regained confidence he can be a factor at 147 pounds. His youth prevails, allowing him to score late. Garcia, unanimous decision.
Nam: Garcia has a good shot here for two reasons. First, he’s a counterpuncher by nature and counterpunchers have typically done well against Pacquiao. Second, Pacquiao is a small welterweight. Also, Garcia is conceivably much closer to his prime than Pacquiao is at this stage. Garcia wins on points in a mild upset.
The Boxing Hall of Fame induction weekend scheduled to begin June 14 in Canastota, New York is off because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley and Juan Manuel Marquez will have to wait to be inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.
A Hall of Fame official told ESPN Sunday that the induction weekend scheduled to begin June 14 in Canastota, New York is off because of the coronavirus pandemic. This year’s class will be inducted with the Class of 2021 a year from June.
Hopkins, Mosley and Marquez were scheduled to be inducted in the modern boxer category. Also, Christy Martin and Lucia Rijker were to be the first women inducted.
“By combining the celebrations of the induction classes of 2020 and 2021, the Hall of Fame can honor inductees with all the bells and whistles that the Hall of Fame weekend is known for and provide each inductee with the recognition they each so richly deserve,” Hall of Fame Executive Director Ed Brophy told ESPN.
“By honoring the two classes in a one-of-a-kind induction weekend, the Hall of Fame will be able to put all the winning combinations together for the inductees, fans and the entire sport of boxing.”
Others set to be inducted were: Frank Erne and Paddy Ryan in the old-timer category; Barbara Buttrick in the women’s trailblazer category; promoters Lou DiBella, Kathy Duva and the late Dan Goossen; and journalists Bernard Fernandez and Thomas Hauser in the observer category.
Those who purchased tickets for induction weekend can use them next year or receive refunds.
The pool of fighters who become eligible for election next year is deep. Among them: Floyd Mayweather, Wladimir Klitschko, Miguel Cotto and Andre Ward.
International Boxing Hall of Fame officials are hoping that induction weekend takes place in mid-June as scheduled.
The coronavirus pandemic has wreaked havoc with boxing and all other sports. One more possible postponement if the threat doesn’t subside soon: The International Boxing Hall of Fame Weekend.
The annual event, in which inductees join the pantheon of great boxers and contributors, has become an institution in June in Canastota, New York.
However, the Hall will be closed through the end of the month and possibly beyond. Executive Direction Ed Brophy told the New York Post that he hopes the event will still take place June 11-14.
“Hall of Fame weekend is still on for mid-June,” Brophy told The Post. “But we’ll continue to follow the rules and regulations of the county and the state and monitor all the different guidelines and watch what happens day-by-day and week-by-week as we go through March.”
The Class of 2020 is a high-powered one, as Bernard Hopkins, Juan Manuel Marquez and Shane Mosley are the marquee names that will enter the Hall. And, for the first time, women will be inducted. The first three honorees are Christy Martin, Lucia Rijker and Barbara Buttrick.
“It’s an historic class with the first females to be enshrined and have their plaques in the museum,” Brophy said. “Ticket sales for the weekend had been good since the fall when we made the announcement of the inductees. We’re still right on target for have a special weekend. We’re going to continue to monitor the next week and a half and the beginning of April and determine what is happening.
“Everything is day-to-day. It’s hard to forecast out to June. But the best position we can be in is to maintain our plans that are well underway and keep moving forward.”
Manny Pacquiao, 41, is believed to be the first boxer to hold major titles in four decades.
Only Manny Pacquiao can make boxing history without lifting a hand.
Pacquiao is believed to be the first fighter to hold major titles in four decades. The Filipino icon, who turned pro at 16 in 1995 and is now 41, won his first world title (flyweight) when he stopped Chatchai Sasakul in eight rounds in 1998 and his most-recent belt (welterweight) when he defeated Keith Thurman by a split decision this past July 20.
Here are Pacquiao’s major titles by decade:
1990s
WBC flyweight (1998) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul
2000s
IBF junior featherweight (2001) – TKO 6 Lehlo Ledwaba
*-Featherweight (2003) – TKO 11 Marco Antonio Barrera
WBC junior lightweight (2008) – SD 12 Juan Manuel Marquez
Bernard Hopkins, Juan Manuel Marquez and Shane Mosley have been elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame.
The cream rose to the top of perhaps the deepest list of prospective hall of famers.
Bernard Hopkins, Juan Manuel Marquez and Shane Mosley were elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame. They will be inducted on June 14 in Canastota, N.Y.
Also, Christy Martin and Lucia Rijker will be the first women boxers inducted into the Hall of Fame.
In the non-participant category, promoters Lou DiBella, Kathy Duva and Dan Goossen were elected. And among observers, boxing writers Bernard Fernandez and Thomas Hauser will be inducted.
Hopkins (55-8-2, 32 knockouts) probably was the cream of the cream. B-Hop went from prison for armed robbery as a young man to one of the greatest middleweights of all time. Hopkins won seven world titles in two divisions but he was at his best as a 160-pounder.
He set records for longest middleweight reign – more than 10 years – and most successful defenses – 20.
Later, the physical freak became the oldest fighter ever to win a title when, at 46 years old, he outpointed Jean Pascal to win the WBC light heavyweight belt in 2011. He broke his own mark twice, the last time unifying two titles by outpointing Beibut Shumenov in 2014.
“I’m glad I’m entering the house of greatness past and present,” Hopkins said. “Thanks to boxing, I became a greater inspiration to the world.”
Marquez (56-7-1, 40 KOs) fought in the shadow of countrymen Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales for a number of years but outlasted both of them in the end and arguably accomplished more.
The master counter puncher won major titles in four divisions over a decade of remarkable consistency but his four-fight series with Manny Pacquiao stands out. Pacquiao emerged with a 2-1-1 edge in those fights but some believe Marquez should’ve been awarded victory in all four of them.
And, in one of the most dramatic moments of the era, Marquez stopped Pacquiao with a single right hand in 2012.
“This is great. I feel very happy and excited to receive this news,” Marquez said. “I am looking forward to being in Canastota for my induction. I am so happy.”
Mosley (49-10-1, 41 KOs) was an outstanding amateur and dominating lightweight before he took center stage in the sport. He was 32-0 – with 30 knockouts – at 135 pounds, at which he held a title for a year and eight months.
However, he made his biggest impact at higher weights. He jumped from 135 to 147 with the idea of challenging for superstar Oscar De La Hoya’s title and accomplished that goal in 2000, winning by a split decision.
Mosley went on to win a junior middleweight title and reign as the top fighter pound-for-pound for a time but also had mixed results after that. And his reputation was tarnished when he admitted to using PEDs for his rematch with De La Hoya. Still, he’s remembered as one of the best of his era.
“I’m so happy and honored,” Mosley said. “I’ve worked my whole life for this. Even when I started as a kid at 8 years old I knew this is what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be. I have accomplished my goals to be one of the greats and go into the Hall of Fame, so this is a great honor.”
Martin (49-7-3, 31 KOs) rose to fame on the undercards of Mike Tyson’s fights in the mid-1990s. “The Coal Miner’s Daughter,” a pioneer among women, won titles and fans, and had the distinction of appearing on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
“I just wanted to be a fighter and fit into the world of boxing and this is a dream come true,” Martin said. “I’m always excited to come back to Canastota, but to come back this year will be very special.”
Rijker (17-0, 14 KOs) is considered by many to be the greatest woman fighter ever. The former kickboxer probably gained her greatest fame when she appeared in the Oscar-winning film “Million Dollar Baby.”
“This is very moving. It makes me feel emotional,” Rijker said. “As I entered normal life after boxing there is a memory of boxing that is in my heart and soul. There is really a strong connection I have to that era and I am really honored to be reminded of that time because sometimes there is a time in your life where everything comes together – mind, body and spirit – and definitely my boxing career aligned all three of them to be the best I could be on all levels. I’m very grateful for that and grateful to be recognized.”
Leo Santa Cruz believes it might be possible for him to win a title in a fifth weight division.
LAS VEGAS – Leo Santa Cruz has stated his goal of joining fellow Mexican-born stars who have won major titles in four divisions, Erik Morales, Jorge Arce and Juan Manuel Marquez.
Santa Cruz might not stop there, though. How about five divisions?
“It’s possible,” said Santa Cruz, who makes his debut at 130 pounds against Miguel Flores on the Deontay Wilder-Luis Ortiz card Saturday at the MGM Grand.
Santa Cruz (36-1-1, 19 knockouts) has won belts at 118, 122 and 126. Next on the list is 130, assuming he can beat Flores (24-2, 12 KOs) and lure one of the junior lightweight titleholders into the ring.
So the resident of Los Angeles already knows what it’s like to move up in weight and face bigger men. He’s done it gradually – fighting at each weight multiple times – and successfully. His move to 130 is no different.
As in the past, he works on increasing his punching power through strength training and sparring with bigger men without forsaking his specialty – volume punching, which is a product of intense conditioning.
He said his sparring partners have told him that his punches are heavier than in the past.
“I know they’re bigger guys,” Santa Cruz told Boxing Junkie at the final news conference before his fight Saturday. “I’m a big guy, too. I go up to around 140, 140-something pounds. I’m getting used to this weight.
“I’m sparring bigger guys who fight at 135, 140, so I won’t see that much of a difference. I’m going try this weight now and see how it goes.”
And that title in a fifth division? Is that realistic?
“Yeah, I think so,” he said. “Like I said, I go up to 140-something. I work really hard on my body. I think I can go up to 135.”
Floyd Mayweather told Reuters that he’s finished as a boxer, although he is open to participating in more exhibitions.
Floyd Mayweather evidently has no plans whatsoever to fight again in a sanctioned bout.
The 42-year-old all-time great told Reuters that he’s finished as a boxer, although he is open to participating in more exhibitions. He said his focus is on his chain of boxing fitness gyms and his promotional company.
So much for rematches with Manny Pacquiao and Canelo Alvarez.
“I’ve got calls to get back into the ring, but my health is my wealth,” Mayweather told the wire service at the opening of one of his gyms in Torrance, California. “Boxing is a very, very brutal sport. In the last few years a lot of fighters have died inside that squared circle.”
He added, “You have got to know when to hang it up. I had a great career.”
Mayweather “retired” in 2007 but came back in 2009, easily outpointing Juan Manuel Marquez to kick off one last serious run in his career. He walked away again after beating Andre Berto in 2015 only to return once more to face MMA star Conor McGregor in 2017.
That was his last fight, giving him a final record of 50-0. Since then, he has done exhibitions. One took place in January, when he defeated Japanese kick boxer Tenshin Nasukawa.
“I’ll still travel and do exhibitions. I make great money doing exhibitions, between $10 and $30 million,” he said. “I think I make more doing that than most fighters make fighting.”
Mayweather also said he expects to expand into mixed martial arts one day.
“Eventually I will move on to build my brand in MMA,” he said, “but for right now I’m in boxing, and boxing will always be at the top as long as I’m involved.”